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-> Interesting Discussions
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amother
Azure
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 Mon, Feb 06 2017, 10:39 pm
Anyone here go through a period of time where they intellectually no longer believed in Orthodox Judaism and then changed their mind and believed in it again?
Would prefer to hear from people that had these doubts etc as adults (ie not as rebellious teenagers).
Also, I am NOT looking for ideas of rabbis to speak to and/or books to read.
I am basically wondering if it's even possible for me to "get my faith back" and would love to hear from people who were where I was and got past it. Or didn't, I guess.
TIA
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amother
Yellow
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Mon, Feb 06 2017, 10:50 pm
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What about BTs or geirim, who became frum for intellectual reasons?
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amother
Royalblue
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Mon, Feb 06 2017, 10:57 pm
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I stopped believing in it about 8 years ago. I live an Orthoprax lifestyle. It's extremely difficult and I'm generally depressed/trapped.
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sequoia
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Mon, Feb 06 2017, 10:59 pm
| amother wrote: | | What about BTs or geirim, who became frum for intellectual reasons? |
That was not why.
I thought it'd be a chance for "community" and "family." Ha!
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amother
Azure
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Mon, Feb 06 2017, 11:02 pm
| amother wrote: | | What about BTs or geirim, who became frum for intellectual reasons? |
No thank you. First of all, many bts and geirim never heard all these "proofs" and once they heard them they were convinced... I on the one hand, grew up hearing them (and spouting them) but as the years go by my doubts grow bigger and bigger. Second of all... what sequoia said.
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amother
Orchid
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Mon, Feb 06 2017, 11:03 pm
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Mishpacha magazine once did an interview/article about the son of a famous Gadol who went off the derech as an adult, and lived like that for a bunch of years maybe 15 or more, and then became frum again. Not sure if this helps at all, but I guess it could happen to some people
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sourstix
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Mon, Feb 06 2017, 11:23 pm
Op I never had this non belief I did have questions. And for me it was the best when I realized I wouldn't get answers.
There is place to believe and place to not believe.
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amother
Yellow
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Mon, Feb 06 2017, 11:24 pm
| sequoia wrote: | That was not why.
I thought it'd be a chance for "community" and "family." Ha! |
Just to clarify. I didn't mean that BT's and geirim are all motivated by intellectual reasoning; that's why I wrote, the bt's who became frum for intellectual reasons. Of those who did.
I'm so sorry that you don't feel part of a community! I know there are some communities that are more welcoming than others...
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amother
Lilac
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Tue, Feb 07 2017, 12:09 am
Well I didn't stuff the genie back in the bottle. I don't think I can ever go back to that innocent belief. But. Once I stopped being under pressure something unexpected happened. I began to see the beauty of my lifestyle... and my genie is now okay living this way.
It's been almost two years since I lost my belief and I can honestly say I am happy now just living in the moment. Not being afraid of messing up and being punished in this world or the next. Not being afraid of my children hearing or seeing things that will ruin them. Just living. And that has made my life alot more peaceful. I don't feel trapped because I don't think turning my life around and becoming secular would make me happier.
The genie is free. Out of the bottle and happy. I hope you can find a comfortable place to land, wherever that may be.
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amother
Cerise
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Tue, Feb 07 2017, 12:25 am
| amother wrote: | Well I didn't stuff the genie back in the bottle. I don't think I can ever go back to that innocent belief. But. Once I stopped being under pressure something unexpected happened. I began to see the beauty of my lifestyle... and my genie is now okay living this way.
It's been almost two years since I lost my belief and I can honestly say I am happy now just living in the moment. Not being afraid of messing up and being punished in this world or the next. Not being afraid of my children hearing or seeing things that will ruin them. Just living. And that has made my life alot more peaceful. I don't feel trapped because I don't think turning my life around and becoming secular would make me happier.
The genie is free. Out of the bottle and happy. I hope you can find a comfortable place to land, wherever that may be. |
This is a nice way to put it.
I wonder though what happens when you go through a real challenge, when being frum presents a real difficulty in life.
It could be little things like forgetting a switch or something on Shabbos that can cause a lot of short-term annoyance. Or more major life choices like a job that requires Shabbos, etc.
What motivates you if you don't believe G-d is looking over your shoulder and nobody will care (or benefit) one way or another?
Or all the money that we "waste" on religious things (including paying tuition!). I'm not talking about the fancy over-the-top stuff like jewelry and silver leichter but even basics, when money is tight and you're paying extra for kosher food. How not to resent a lifestyle that you don't believe in?
Or the feeling that we are putting so much emphasis on things that don't matter. Like all the halachic minutiae.
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amother
Ruby
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Tue, Feb 07 2017, 1:56 am
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Emuna means to believe. not to know. not to understand. To believe.
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naturalmom5
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Tue, Feb 07 2017, 3:16 am
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What if intellectually and spiritually you love everything about yiddishkeit, but the people you are forced to work with and live with are really disgusting in comparison to your social circle growing up
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amother
Maroon
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Tue, Feb 07 2017, 3:34 am
I've gone back and forth on the belief spectrum.
I think it's normal that when you first move from one end to another, on any issue (faith, politics, personal values, etc), it feels like some big truth has been "released." But that's no more the whole truth than the initial, unquestioned position was the whole truth.
So no, there's no "genie back into the bottle" moment - for people who go back and forth, it's more like recognizing that there is no genie. There's no magic moment where a hidden truth is revealed, just a life-long series of realizations that lead us in various directions.
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amother
Coral
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Tue, Feb 07 2017, 4:24 am
| amother wrote: | Well I didn't stuff the genie back in the bottle. I don't think I can ever go back to that innocent belief. But. Once I stopped being under pressure something unexpected happened. I began to see the beauty of my lifestyle... and my genie is now okay living this way.
It's been almost two years since I lost my belief and I can honestly say I am happy now just living in the moment. Not being afraid of messing up and being punished in this world or the next. Not being afraid of my children hearing or seeing things that will ruin them. Just living. And that has made my life alot more peaceful. I don't feel trapped because I don't think turning my life around and becoming secular would make me happier.
The genie is free. Out of the bottle and happy. I hope you can find a comfortable place to land, wherever that may be. |
This is true for me, too.
I don't think it's possible to start believing again after one has lost it. Those who come back to religious life often do so for various reasons other than a real and pure belief in God and the authenticity of the Torah.
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amother
Sapphire
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Tue, Feb 07 2017, 4:47 am
| naturalmom5 wrote: | | What if intellectually and spiritually you love everything about yiddishkeit, but the people you are forced to work with and live with are really disgusting in comparison to your social circle growing up |
You find another community. Not all religious Jews are the same.
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amother
Vermilion
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Tue, Feb 07 2017, 5:23 am
| amother wrote: | | Emuna means to believe. not to know. not to understand. To believe. | actually it means faith as in faithful to our creator.
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amother
Vermilion
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Tue, Feb 07 2017, 5:26 am
For me, it is working out in therapy all of the charaidi brainwash that I been a victim of. The longer I am in therapy, the less I question, and the more I see beauty.
I follow the law of the Torah just like I follow the policy of my company, and the law of the country (lehavdil?)
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amother
Babypink
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Tue, Feb 07 2017, 10:30 am
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I found that when I was going through a very rocky time in my life (on a few fronts), the intellectual issues that I had with Judaism seemed to be very highlighted and I did go on auto pilot for a while because I wasn't believing, but knew that I didn't want to lose my family and community. Once some of those issues smoothed out, I didn't find my issues to feature as prominently and it was no longer as much of a struggle for me to keep practicing. It has been cyclical for me and I just remind myself that when I am in an emotionally healthier place, I won't have as much discordance intellectually and I just wait it out.
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amother
Taupe
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Tue, Feb 07 2017, 8:53 pm
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This is such an interesting discussion and very relevant to me as well. I was a very firm believer all through my teenage years and early twenties and I 'lost' it about 10 yeas ago. I've had some ups and downs with a few moments of inspiration but it's very hard. My main struggle is with regard to raising my kids and answering their pure questions. I want to believe so badly. But a lot of the time I can't.
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amother
Oak
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Tue, Feb 07 2017, 9:21 pm
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I haven't completely lost faith, though I struggle and question. But to live a healthy life, I had to put the bottle away, on a very high shelf. I don't know if the genie is in our out. I try to ignore the bottle and genie and focus on the rest of my wonderful life. Wrestling with my questions was destroying me, and it was not worthwhile for me to focus on them. I continue to live the life I've always lived (ok, with some modifications). I don't have much spirituality of religious meaning in my life in the conventional sense, because it is likely to arouse difficult questions and angst.
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