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Yerida, feels like a failure...Shame
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amother
Black


 

Post Tue, Feb 07 2017, 1:20 pm
We be been in Israel about 5 years, I have a daughter in 1 St grade and a new born. It has been a very bumpy 5 years, and although we are doing well financially now with good secure job for my husband and a decent salary that allows us to breathe a bit I am left with a bitter taste of how hard it has been and all I want is moving back to the US. I miss family, I miss the way things work there, I miss a lot of things. And although Israel is AMAZING for raising kids I find it disturbing when it comes to charedi politics and constant chilly HaShem since we happen to live near charedim who happen to be particularly insane, we are yeshivish but never really integrated in the charedi culture nor do we want to be dati Leumi.
The thing is... We belong to a community of very very idealist olim and we feel like we r betraying the community by leaving, we are kind of active in the community and for many reasons our decision, once announced, will be a bummer - potentially huge bummer.

Please chime in
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amother
Vermilion


 

Post Tue, Feb 07 2017, 1:50 pm
We just did this a year ago. We never planned on moving, and probably, between the lines, we moved for the same reason (particularly crazy charedim...). You did the right thing. There are many ways to serve Hashem and although one objectively looks "righter," who are you to make Hashem's chesbonos? Israel is still galus and has many issues, just as America does. You need to get out of the mindset that America is traif. It isn't. There is thriving Torah all over and people manage to raise heiligia children. Granted, it takes work. But America does have some things that Israel doesn't. Be humbled and know that only Hashem knows what is more "right." What was especially helpful for us was to hear from a gadol or respected rav just how good is was that we were moving. Our rav said, "everyone wants to know what the ratzon Hashem is. Here, Hashem is practically kicking you out of EY and pushing you to USA, it is obvious that this is the ratzon Hashem." It is a transition, and at first you may feel lost; that your roadmap is now useless. IYH you will be appreciated in your new community, not be "one of hundreds" and get involved in making a kiddish Hashem. Raising and nurturing a happy, healthy family is the biggest mitzva you can do, and sometimes that is easier to do in the good ol' US of A
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amother
Wheat


 

Post Tue, Feb 07 2017, 1:57 pm
Just wanted to say I gave you a genuine hug, because it sounds like you're in a tough spot.
The culture shock is rough. I thought I did want to be DL since I never really fit in in the US, but what I really want is the Zionist but mainly Derech-Eretz-Kadma-LeTorah approach I was raised with. We're talking of moving somewhere where our kids may grow up with American-accented Hebrew, but we'll be saner parents. Is there anywhere like that that's Yeshivish you could consider?

Edited to anonymous- sorry, noticed this is in a public forum.
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amother
Black


 

Post Tue, Feb 07 2017, 2:08 pm
amother wrote:
Just wanted to say I gave you a genuine hug, because it sounds like you're in a tough spot.
The culture shock is rough. I thought I did want to be DL since I never really fit in in the US, but what I really want is the Zionist but mainly Derech-Eretz-Kadma-LeTorah approach I was raised with. We're talking of moving somewhere where our kids may grow up with American-accented Hebrew, but we'll be saner parents. Is there anywhere like that that's Yeshivish you could consider?

Edited to anonymous- sorry, noticed this is in a public forum.


OP here:
We r still in Israel and we live in one of the main Anglo communities here...With an American accented Hebrew like u say lol-- so no I don't see any community we d fit in here in Israel, actually we happen to have an amazing circle of friends and community but anything out of that is absolute insanity,from bureaucracy to the.larger world around us... For you I d say yes, moving I to the Anglo bubble def sounds like sanity
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amother
Black


 

Post Tue, Feb 07 2017, 2:09 pm
amother wrote:
We just did this a year ago. We never planned on moving, and probably, between the lines, we moved for the same reason (particularly crazy charedim...). You did the right thing. There are many ways to serve Hashem and although one objectively looks "righter," who are you to make Hashem's chesbonos? Israel is still galus and has many issues, just as America does. You need to get out of the mindset that America is traif. It isn't. There is thriving Torah all over and people manage to raise heiligia children. Granted, it takes work. But America does have some things that Israel doesn't. Be humbled and know that only Hashem knows what is more "right." What was especially helpful for us was to hear from a gadol or respected rav just how good is was that we were moving. Our rav said, "everyone wants to know what the ratzon Hashem is. Here, Hashem is practically kicking you out of EY and pushing you to USA, it is obvious that this is the ratzon Hashem." It is a transition, and at first you may feel lost; that your roadmap is now useless. IYH you will be appreciated in your new community, not be "one of hundreds" and get involved in making a kiddish Hashem. Raising and nurturing a happy, healthy family is the biggest mitzva you can do, and sometimes that is easier to do in the good ol' US of A

Very wise words thank you
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 07 2017, 4:16 pm
Hugs. Just remember, wherever you are, you will be able to serve Hashem. I remember hearing Tammy Karmel, who should have a refuah shleima, say this about adjusting to a hoist in her home as her situation deteriorated. She said that she felt dehumanized, like a sack of potatoes. Then she realized that just as she served Hashem from her wheelchair, she could serve Him anywhere. In her chair, her hoist, anywhere. And there was nothing to be ashamed of. She didn't do anything wrong.

Sorry if this sounds familiar. I share it often because I found it transformative.
Lots, and lots of hatzlacha!
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b from nj




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 07 2017, 4:20 pm
Don't feel badly! You took a big leap that many of us (myself included) were too chicken to even try.

Kol hakavod to you for making the decision to move to Israel in the first place and for giving Aliyah a chance.

There are many others who have made Yeridah for a variety of reasons.

You are not alone and you are not a failure!

Do what is right for your family!!
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DVOM




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 07 2017, 4:54 pm
My husband was born in Israel to American parents. His parents had made Aliyah in the 50's, before the anglo enclaves developed, and live in a very Isreali charaidi Jerusalem community. My husband decided to leave Israel when he was in his teens. There was just no place for him there. As a very active, athletic, curious kid who had little interest in Gemara learning, his school years were really tough. It was very hard for me to understand, when we were dating and newly married, why he would never consider moving back. My year of seminary had given me a beautiful, inspirational, but thoroughly sanitized version of Israeli charaidi society. I love Israel passionately, but I can see why many Americans would have a hard time finding a community they could feel comfortable in. OP, we are raising a happy, healthy, beautiful family in chutz la Eretz. It can be done.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 07 2017, 6:24 pm
There is more to Israel than Charedim. There's so many different flavors of communities to choose from! That's why we were told to rent for the first couple of years, because we shouldn't buy a house in the first community we land in. There are tons of lovely cities, towns, yishuvim, moshavim, and people of every type and background.

Before you make a big jump, try to travel around and get a feeling for your options. I'm sure that many mothers here would love to put you up for Shabbos, and tour you around their towns.
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MitzadSheini




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 07 2017, 6:44 pm
Even if you do end up leaving ch'v remember you did have the zehus to be there 5 years longer than Moshe Rabbeinu.
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amother
Linen


 

Post Wed, Feb 08 2017, 12:19 am
I am in the same position now and I identify completely with your feelings - we are also planning to move after even more years of living here; coming to this decision was so wrenching for me; I'm still coming to terms with it even though I am pretty firm in my realization that this is what our family needs right now. It's hard. I keep telling myself that it's okay to be sad, to be disappointed that things turned out this way - but we are doing this for the right reasons, and that is what matters at the end of the day.

Not sure if this helps at all, but I just couldn't pass by this without replying - I have been walking around feeling so alone with this lately (because nobody knows of our decision yet) and you must be feeling the same way.
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amother
Bisque


 

Post Wed, Feb 08 2017, 12:49 am
There are so many communities in Israel. Why don't you take a look around and see what is out there? Also, America might not be what you remember. You might not find a perfect community. Then you have the additional burden of tuition, no as good of a Jewish education, etc... Lots of factors and not an easy decision.
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amother
Mint


 

Post Wed, Feb 08 2017, 2:15 am
Dear OP

I feel we are in a very similar place. We are Charedi, do not live in a Charedi area by choice, but near one. I have one child in the system but have come to a crossroads regarding the future of their education here. I have a son to place in school in the near future and want him to have a full secular education as well as a Torah one. I feel I have no community here, I don't fit in or belong, cannot understand the Charedi community or lifestyle here and don't particularly want to integrate into it for reasons you have mentioned.
My experience of Charedi community in Chutz laretz was very positive and I am saddened that we can't seem to find that here.
I feel a yerida in my Yiddishkeit due to lack of support.I would probably have a lot more feeling of connection if we went back. It is so ironic that this is how I feel in the Holy Land and so incredibly sad. I have to work very hard on my own to feel some sort of connection but it's not easy.
We looked very hard at moving to RBS but in the end it wasn't for us.

We have to make some crucial decisions, mainly concerning the education of our children. It's really not easy.

I wish you lots of hatzlacha and if you decide to go back in order to make a better life for your family, then please don't feel like a failure. It's very important to do what's right for you and your future.

It takes a very strong person to say 'I tried and it hasn't worked so let's move on'.
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DB12




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 1:40 am
amother wrote:
Dear OP

I feel we are in a very similar place. We are Charedi, do not live in a Charedi area by choice, but near one. I have one child in the system but have come to a crossroads regarding the future of their education here. I have a son to place in school in the near future and want him to have a full secular education as well as a Torah one. I feel I have no community here, I don't fit in or belong, cannot understand the Charedi community or lifestyle here and don't particularly want to integrate into it for reasons you have mentioned.
My experience of Charedi community in Chutz laretz was very positive and I am saddened that we can't seem to find that here.
I feel a yerida in my Yiddishkeit due to lack of support.I would probably have a lot more feeling of connection if we went back. It is so ironic that this is how I feel in the Holy Land and so incredibly sad. I have to work very hard on my own to feel some sort of connection but it's not easy.
We looked very hard at moving to RBS but in the end it wasn't for us.

We have to make some crucial decisions, mainly concerning the education of our children. It's really not easy.

I wish you lots of hatzlacha and if you decide to go back in order to make a better life for your family, then please don't feel like a failure. It's very important to do what's right for you and your future.

It takes a very strong person to say 'I tried and it hasn't worked so let's move on'.


I relate to this so much Right now, I feel like for a variety fo reasons, we are having a yerida in ruchniyus due to lack fo suport/family here/ not in the box enough.... it makes me sad. but we are coming to realization staying here is prob not right for us... Im just worried about going back and feeling spiritually empty.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 2:46 am
I am neither Charedi nor Yeshivish, but I cannot see any of my US-based yeshivish extended family being happy in the Israeli Charedi community either.
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Super Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 2:55 am
Hi ladies, I understand the 5 year aliyah itch but I feel that it's normal. Once the settler instinct has worn off and the bills need paying things can look bleak and yes, the equivalent communities are plagued with politics that makes everyone uncomfortable. I am in Netanya and having a real blast. I take the kids to the beach and have ladies nights doing hafrashat challah and really enjoying my avodat Hashem, bh! Before you throw in the towel, come and try a community that's a little more chilled in terms of daily life. There is a lovely chardal community that is constantly building. Pm me if you want to give it a try. שנה טובה ומתוקה
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 5:27 am
U are not not failure! Chas vshalom! Hashem loves u!
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amother
Plum


 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 5:35 am
amother wrote:
We be been in Israel about 5 years, I have a daughter in 1 St grade and a new born. It has been a very bumpy 5 years, and although we are doing well financially now with good secure job for my husband and a decent salary that allows us to breathe a bit I am left with a bitter taste of how hard it has been and all I want is moving back to the US. I miss family, I miss the way things work there, I miss a lot of things. And although Israel is AMAZING for raising kids I find it disturbing when it comes to charedi politics and constant chilly HaShem since we happen to live near charedim who happen to be particularly insane, we are yeshivish but never really integrated in the charedi culture nor do we want to be dati Leumi.
The thing is... We belong to a community of very very idealist olim and we feel like we r betraying the community by leaving, we are kind of active in the community and for many reasons our decision, once announced, will be a bummer - potentially huge bummer.

Please chime in


Had this experience too
Felt like such a failure
But once in America I really started to value menuchas hanefesh..
Something that was difficult to attain in EY
I think menuchas hanefesh is a very spiritual ideal
Different than other spiritual ideals I left behind in e'y... But has changed my life and avodas Hashem in a beautiful way
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amother
Smokey


 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 10:01 pm
Whether you stay or go back, at least you went and tried to make it work. That's more than most people can say. So no you're not a failure even if you go back and you have nothing to be ashamed of. The failures and the Shane belong to those who never bothered trying.
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 11:32 pm
It feels like a failure because it is a failure. A failure to immigrate.

Doesn't mean you are a failure (it might, but it doesn't automatically meant that), but let's just be honest.
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