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Chareidi, Frum, Yeshivish: how about a new label "Jewish"!!!



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ProudMommie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 08 2017, 5:08 am
We made aliyah from Brooklyn three years ago... it has been hard, yes. We r in Yerushalaim, in Ramot.. The culture and mainly the chedorim issues we have had...have made our lives very challenging and I have spent many sleepless nights... There are many issues here I am not arguing! Our home (meaning Israel) is not kol beseder!! But... it is our home... our beautiful E'Y... Hshem's eye is always on Zion!!

Every step we take is a mitzva... but I know what does it matter when your kids school is not matim... etc..

I am reading the yerida posts and it hurts deeply. I feel for you. I understand you... but I do NOT believe that leaving is the answer. Last I heard there is no great perfection in America either... The nisayon to stay is very strong, agreed.. but leaving is still not the answer.

The issues we deal with here do not have to be the "giants" to scare us away...

Let's pull our resources.. reach out, unite together and create something good. We do not have to be exactly alike to do this... We can all love and respect each other just because we are Jewish!

Mostly all of us here without the family and community supports we once had in America...

But... we still came... why?

Because we had a dream to live in the kedushas of Eretz Hakadosh? For our husbands and our children to learn Torah here ...where the very air makes you wise...No?

I don't want to give up on this dream...

We can't wait for someone to make it homey for us... we have to create what we want here for ourselves.

So...

I want to form an organization to help ourselves and help other olim who are coming... Not for profit!!!! Not to make money of the tzuris and challenges of my brethren!! Completely and Totally always free in every way!!!

I believe that my Jewish sisters have the inner resources to create powerful change and the kind of E"Y that is livable for us... a school system that is matim for our children, for example...

No, we can't do it individually maybe, but we can do it together.. by pulling ALL our resources together...

I am a realistic dreamer and have created many things in my life... I think that if we unite we can help ourselves to have the support and resources we need to be successful in the holy land..


For those who are interested, please pm me. I want to make a meeting in my apartment though I hope that we will have to rent a hall!!! Still, even if one person wants to join me, I will be super happy and excited...
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 08 2017, 5:11 am
How do you propose it to work? What are some specific goals? How would it be different than regular N'shei?
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amother
Green


 

Post Wed, Feb 08 2017, 5:20 am
I wish you much hatzlacha. I'm not Charedi, either in Israel or chutz laaretz, so you can take this with a grain of salt. A good number of American yeshivish families who make aliya would be better off in a Torani dati leumi community than in a Charedi one, but won't make the leap because the externals are different. If you are willing to move beyond black and white equals frum, you can have more options. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, but it's an option to take seriously.
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ProudMommie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 08 2017, 5:52 am
Iymnok wrote:
How do you propose it to work? What are some specific goals? How would it be different than regular N'shei?


I am not a part of Nshei and basically from what I know it is mainly shiurim and focus on spiritual growth ... etc.. or maybe "dealing" with the system

I don't want to so much DEAL ... but to make a change either within structures that exist or to create new structures... I hear people saying the same things over and over and many people are very unhappy with the school system as it is.. and also basically feel that they lack support and community feeling...

Newsflash: Many Israeilis also feel that way..

I am unhappy with the schools. I am unhappy with the fact that to find a chug for a child is such a big deal.. There should be a place where American children can connect to other children whose parents are olim... etc. etc. etc...


I know in Ramat Bet Shemesh there are American style chedarim for the children... and there are many people trying and open to build communities and come together...of all different types of Jews who love Hshem and (learning) Torah...

... but here where I am there is nothing really... and everything is super hard to organize... Everyone is separate... and that is the problem.

I am not anti-Israelis.. chas v'shalom.. they can join us too.. They too feel that the "box" -----whoever created it and I don't know many people, especially olim, who can fit into it... --- is limiting and what exactly does it have to do with being a good Jew??

I think that American frum olim have a lot to offer Israeli society and I don't think we need to fit into the chareidi box... or leave if we do not fit!!!. There is no mitzvah in the box... but... there is a mitzva of yishuv E"Y!

I think that many olim are basically alone and posting on Imamother is not the greatest way to feel supported or to make any changes...

I am offering my place to have a meeting... I am a simple person and do not have all the details worked out... I am saying that people united together can make a difference!

we all have the goal to be happy in our new life here in E"Y...
I believe that together we can make it easier for olim to stay in E"Y, maybe especially Yerushalaim... it is certainly worth a shot!!!

I just refuse to sit and do nothing when I clearly see that so many people are struggling... and they struggle because they have NO community and are powerless alone to make any changes or be proactive...

I am going to be away from my computer for probably the rest of the day.. Please pm me if you want to be part of the meeting. A date will be made so it is convenient for everyone... probably during the day.. once I know who is interested and their availability...
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 08 2017, 5:59 am
ProudMommie wrote:
I am unhappy with the schools. I am unhappy with the fact that to find a chug for a child is such a big deal.. There should be a place where American children can connect to other children whose parents are olim.
Proudmommie, what would children gain from only hanging out with other children of olim instead of hanging out with all of their class mates or all of the kids on the block, no matter where they are from?
Kids acclimate much easier than parents it seems. The best thing for children is to let them start playing and hanging out with the same kids that everyone else hangs out with. If they only hang out with other olim kids, that wont help them at all.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Wed, Feb 08 2017, 6:31 am
ProudMommie. ironically I live in Ramot and I am in your shoes too.
You sound just like my husband who would love to open and organization too.
I will tell you more or less what I tell him....
You are on the right track. but you need a bit more direction.
Do you want to open a school? Do you want to create a community? Are you trying to create a subculture?
And since you posted this in response to the yerida post. I just must say that it really isn't correct to assume that living here is correct for everybody.
For sooooo many reasons.
And even if the reason is that she does not have the same cochos hanefesh to battle the system and stay positive despite it all like you, That is enough of a reason.
Without getting into to much detail, lest I out myself, I have witness many people stay here 'no matter what' but have sacrificed much more than the comfort of america.
Things like marriage, mental health and the frumkeit of their children.
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ProudMommie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 08 2017, 7:04 am
amother wrote:
ProudMommie. ironically I live in Ramot and I am in your shoes too.
You sound just like my husband who would love to open and organization too.
I will tell you more or less what I tell him....
You are on the right track. but you need a bit more direction.
Do you want to open a school? Do you want to create a community? Are you trying to create a subculture?
And since you posted this in response to the yerida post. I just must say that it really isn't correct to assume that living here is correct for everybody.
For sooooo many reasons.
And even if the reason is that she does not have the same cochos hanefesh to battle the system and stay positive despite it all like you, That is enough of a reason.
Without getting into to much detail, lest I out myself, I have witness many people stay here 'no matter what' but have sacrificed much more than the comfort of america.
Things like marriage, mental health and the frumkeit of their children.


I hear you and dont dismiss what you say... I am not saying I have all those super kochos to battle and stay positive. I can leave to various places too..but I am just saying that if we r united we can maybe make changes here in yerushalaim at least where I tnink so many of these issues r especially acute..
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ProudMommie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 08 2017, 7:46 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Proudmommie, what would children gain from only hanging out with other children of olim instead of hanging out with all of their class mates or all of the kids on the block, no matter where they are from?
Kids acclimate much easier than parents it seems. The best thing for children is to let them start playing and hanging out with the same kids that everyone else hangs out with. If they only hang out with other olim kids, that wont help them at all.


as a child who grew up in the us with immigrant parents and also was an immigrant myself who had to learn english etc. etc...I can say that it is VERY important to have people and children with similar backgrounds..language, culture, etc...it really makes things easier. Someone who was born and raised in the same place cant always fully appreciate how important it is...and though I am completely bilingual...there is that amazing element of familiarity with people who speak both English and my mother tongue. I know my son also feels more kesher with kids who speak English though he is fluent in Hebrew
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 08 2017, 8:00 am
I think one key to a successful aliyah is finding the correct community "fit."

Although I don't recommend living in an Anglo "bubble," I do find, at least in my experience, that it is helpful to have some sort of support system. I have never found the need to create some sort of organization for this, but that may be because we have a nice network of friends here.

Do you have connections with your community?
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 08 2017, 8:07 am
ProudMommie wrote:
as a child who grew up in the us with immigrant parents and also was an immigrant myself who had to learn english etc. etc...I can say that it is VERY important to have people and children with similar backgrounds..language, culture, etc...it really makes things easier. Someone who was born and raised in the same place cant always fully appreciate how important it is...and though I am completely bilingual...there is that amazing element of familiarity with people who speak both English and my mother tongue. I know my son also feels more kesher with kids who speak English though he is fluent in Hebrew
I never said that your children shouldnt play with english speakers. I was saying that you mentioned that you want a place where only olim children can hang out with each other. I thought that that was not a good idea. Thats all. I think hanging out with people of your mother tongue is a great idea. But also to integrate as well, with Israeli hebrew speaking kids too. Thats all.
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amother
Babypink


 

Post Wed, Feb 08 2017, 2:17 pm
amother wrote:
And even if the reason is that she does not have the same cochos hanefesh to battle the system and stay positive despite it all like you, That is enough of a reason.
Without getting into to much detail, lest I out myself, I have witness many people stay here 'no matter what' but have sacrificed much more than the comfort of america.
Things like marriage, mental health and the frumkeit of their children.

Do you know me? Smile
It was a process of many years, but I lost my marriage, financial stability and mental health over this single-minded zealotry of living in Israel and being Chareidi over all else, promoted by certain American Rabbis here. B'H my children are young and seem fine so far. I hope to keep it that way and therefore made what was viewed as a radical (crazy/irrational) decision to move from a very Chareidi lifestyle to Torani Dati Leumi. It is a strange transition because all I know is black and white. My children seem to be doing very well. There are issues no matter where you place yourself, but for now, although I cannot leave Israel, I feel liberated.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Wed, Feb 08 2017, 2:38 pm
amother wrote:
I wish you much hatzlacha. I'm not Charedi, either in Israel or chutz laaretz, so you can take this with a grain of salt. A good number of American yeshivish families who make aliya would be better off in a Torani dati leumi community than in a Charedi one, but won't make the leap because the externals are different. If you are willing to move beyond black and white equals frum, you can have more options. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, but it's an option to take seriously.


Not only the external. Dati is tzioni, yeshivish isn't. IN Israel it also translates into army vs no army.
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amother
Green


 

Post Wed, Feb 08 2017, 3:13 pm
amother wrote:
Not only the external. Dati is tzioni, yeshivish isn't. IN Israel it also translates into army vs no army.


Which is why I said it's not for everyone. My experience has been that many American yeshivish olim are very supportive of the state (not in a messianic way) and hesder or Nachal Charedi is an option for them.
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