OU Responsum about female rabbis

SixOfWands

Thu, Feb 09 2017, 3:43 pm

tigerwife wrote:

My question is why isn't rebbitzen enough? When did it become 'lesser' than 'rabbi'? I always understood it to be the female version, such as king and queen, waiter and waitress, etc.

What is the need for the term Rabba? You're right, it does seem to be an etymological war Very Happy

. Or, does the term 'Rabba' mean that the woman is also able to pasken halachic matters like a Dayan? For leadership positions, a rebbitzen seems to encompass all.

ETA Just reread your response and I must admit to not being familiar with Yeshiva Maharat. I am referring to women who didn't specifically 'go to school' for this, but they are nonetheless very learned and worthy of the title. Good middos also make up a large part of the equation.

The OU is referring to women who have attended school, passed exams identical (or at least substantially identical) to those a male rabbinic student has to pass, and who are very learned. But no, a maharat or abba is not permitted to be a dayan, or to pasken novel matters. (As opposed to the normal, mundane questions posed to most shul rabbis.)

I've never heard the term "rebbetzin" applied to anyone other than the rabbi's wife. Its insulting to compare a woman who has spent years learning to someone who got married.

Again, though, why on earth would the OU, or anyone else, care so much about the use of a made-up word.

tigerwife

Thu, Feb 09 2017, 3:52 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

I've never heard the term "rebbetzin" applied to anyone other than the rabbi's wife. Its insulting to compare a woman who has spent years learning to someone who got married.

It's definitely a matter of community norms. I know some great rebbitzens but I have no idea who their husbands are (though I'm sure they're nice people). Thinking of Reb. Esther Jungreis (a"h), Reb. Dina Fink, Reb. Tehila Abramov, Reb. Shlomtzi Weiss, just a few names off the top of my head.

amother

Denim

Thu, Feb 09 2017, 3:56 pm

BrachaBatya wrote:

I am in a minority here but I believe women should have the same professional opportunities as men in the Jewish world and that includes the title of rabbi. Look outside the Orthodox world! There are hundreds/thousands (?) of Conservative, Renewal, Reconstructionist, Reform rabbis and they are BRILLIANT. And LEARNED. Yes, they are different from the mainstream Orthodox women in personal practice. But they are brilliant, deeply learned Jewish women leaders. They are called RABBI. I respect them. I respect many kinds of Judaism and I respect women who are trained for many years to become rabbis, and earn their living as such.

[some content removed by Yael]

Your not even attempting to mask the ugly truth, that you respect the uprooters of our holy Torah! PUKE

Carmen Luna

Thu, Feb 09 2017, 4:00 pm

smile12345 wrote:

After reading your post and seeing the fact that it got liked I guess continuing this discussion is pointless.
I don't look at Conservative, Reform and the others you mentioned as Torah-true paths to Judaism and therefore wouldn't come close to calling them professional Torah scholars or G-d fearing Jews. We seem to have a very different definition of Torah Judaism, let alone the lesser important topic of female Rabbis.

THIS.
Sometimes when Torah believing Amothers get bashed by the far left, it can make us think "Hold on, maybe we ARE extreme"..
But reading these posts that reek of heresy only confirm that unfortunately there are women here with secular hashkafos

israelimom

Thu, Feb 09 2017, 4:34 pm

Regarding the title -- aren't there issues of parsonage that can impact one's income? I'd imagine if the female scholar took a title, she would qualify for parsonage (totally ignorant on this point -- here in Israel, among yoatzot, women studying to pass the rabbanut exams/dayyanut exams, and female scholars, the OU position paper is irrelevant).

amother

Powderblue

Thu, Feb 09 2017, 5:28 pm

tigerwife wrote:

But all are married to rabbis right?

PinkFridge

Thu, Feb 09 2017, 5:50 pm

BrachaBatya wrote:

Wow.
Say I know someone who trained for several years to be an alternative medicine practitioner, who only does alt med, including her famous herbal regimen for cancer, and eschews allopathic medicine. S/he might be aidel, a real mensch of a person, whose middos all can learn from.
But despite the years of training, that may well have included a few legitimate anatomy classes, I will not call quacks DOCTORS.

Carmen Luna

Thu, Feb 09 2017, 5:51 pm

BrachaBatya wrote:

I'm sad that my reply was treated with such harsh judgment. I am an open minded Orthodox Jewish woman. I don't hold the only key to Judaism. There are many paths of Jewish life. Mine is not the only way and neither is yours.

Exactly! It's not our custom made religion that we can twist and turn to fit current societal norms. It's an ancient and sacred, G-d Given religion that has to upheld without the slightest changes of how we received it at Har Sinai. Thus, making Reform and all the other phoney "isms" a distorted and invalid and diluted version of Judaism, not to be recognized, respected or reckoned with.

PinkFridge

Thu, Feb 09 2017, 5:55 pm

BrachaBatya wrote:

Yes, there are shivim panim l'Torah. Many authentic ways to fully live a Torah life.
I don't mean to be harsh but I don't get you.
Years ago I read an article in Tradition IIRC written by a BT who was a Reform rabbi. He said he'd never been exposed to the concept of the melacha of hotza'a. Not even to reject it.
If anyone's familiar with such an article and I'm not remembering correctly, please let me know.

dimyona

Thu, Feb 09 2017, 6:04 pm

tigerwife wrote:

All of those are indeed accomplished people, but there is no officially recognized path to achieve that status, or objective credentials that speak to their abilities. To be an Rebbetzin independent of a husband's title, you need to be from a choshuv family, a talented educator, popular speaker etc.

The title of rebbetzin does not inherently imply any halachic knowledge or standardized ability to counsel in halachic or hashkafic matters. It is simply a subjective term of respect.

poelmamosh

Thu, Feb 09 2017, 6:06 pm

As a Chabad shlucha going in 16 years (imvho, no spokesperson or spouter of halachah), I'd like to address the professional/title question as it relates to my personal experience:

We were a young couple looking for shlichus at a difficult time: the first "entrepreneurial" community posts were pretty much filled and the new frontiers of college campus initiatives, adult education, special needs volunteer programs had not yet been conceived. We were offered a great opportunity to move as a team second to a big city in a foreign country. It had lots of perks: lots of choices for dh--college campus, a pulpit, a business district and even came with a living wage (I spoke to my sister's coworker from that country to discuss the costs of living)...but there was one major caveat: the reason the head shluchim were so desperate to have us was because they needed a preschool director and I had the credentials and experience. The only way they were going to risk the investment (just the moving costs were astronomical) was if I signed a long term contract for that job. I couldn't do it. What's if I wouldn't be able to manage a career as my family grew? Or I had to take a leave of absence for a difficult pregnancy? My priority was to be a mother first (I had no kids yet, and ironically didn't have them for another 4 years!) And we ended up turning the shichus down.

There are frum women out there who are certainly capable and within my circle of friends, relatives and colleagues there are those who live up to or even surpass the role of rabbi, but any title that comes along with incontrovertible expectation to such a role is nor part of my value system.

Signed, P. Mamosh, Rebbetzin (female rabbi)
(Yes, that's my tiule on our joint tax returns, for parsonage purposes)

happybeingamom

Thu, Feb 09 2017, 7:25 pm

BrachaBatya wrote:

The theology of conservative and reform is not Judaism. They do not believe in the divinity of the Torah. There is only one way to describe them "Chotim U'Machti es HaRabbim".

Following Torah and Halacha is the path to be a righteous Jew. There is no other.

dimyona

Thu, Feb 09 2017, 7:28 pm

happybeingamom wrote:

Conservative and Reform are vastly different from one another.