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Day Without Immigrants- In Your Community?
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wondergirl









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:00 am
gp2.0 wrote:
Some groceries said they won't be doing deliveries today because of the strike. Thursday is the busiest day of the week for grocery stores.

Thats silly, they will just lose money as their customers will just go to the grocery that is doing deliveries. And all because they didn't want to spend a little money and hire temp workers or yeshiva bochurim to make the deliveries. So they are cutting their nose off to spite their face and only hurting themselves in the process. Why would they do that? Rolling Eyes
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SixOfWands









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:06 am
wondergirl wrote:
I fail to see why American citizens can't work in the fields. The Amish do it, why cant everyone else do that as well? In fact, many Americans do work in the fields, we even had a farmer on the Bachelor show one season and I am sure there are many more citizens who work on the farms as well. We can also create a program for students to work on the farms and give them credit for it in the same way they do internships or volunteer in other places.
And there are plenty of American citizens who can do domestic work, be groundskeepers, or manufacture clothing. In fact, there are many American citizens who do these kinds of work at least based on your statistics so why are illegal aliens given any credit for it? Why are they being hired altogether if there are American citizens who need these jobs?
Same goes for college, why should illegal aliens be accepted into these programs or be given financial aid just because they succeeded in breaking the laws and getting away with it? Why should a law abiding American citizen be turned away from college in favor of someone who had no legal right to be in this country in the first place?


Ask the president.

Since the election, he's gotten permission to hire 64 foreign guest workers at Mar-a-Lago, and I'm not sure how many more at Trump Winery. In both cases, the businesses had to warrant that they could not get American workers to do the job. And he's been saying that for years.

I respect you for using your name. But will you say this to people here? Tell them that the answer to their financial woes is to stop going upstate for the summer, and start heading out to the fields to pick crops?

The fact is that American workers do not want, and will not take, these jobs. Sadly.

As to colleges, do you have information suggesting that US students are being denied higher education as a result of undocumented students. Who, by the way, mostly arrived here as kids, and who don't know or remember any other country, and who did nothing other than stay with their parents.
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rikki 1









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:06 am
My cleaning lady works hard and she gets $12 an hour without having to pay taxes and I work in a business and get paid $15 an hour before taxes. so she gets a better deal than me. She does work very hard though and reliable so I'm happy to pay her.
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SixOfWands









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:08 am
wondergirl wrote:
Thats silly, they will just lose money as their customers will just go to the grocery that is doing deliveries. And all because they didn't want to spend a little money and hire temp workers or yeshiva bochurim to make the deliveries. So they are cutting their nose off to spite their face and only hurting themselves in the process. Why would they do that? Rolling Eyes


Its a one-day strike. There's a proud history of that in the US.

But again, how many yeshiva bochurs do you know who are willing to do deliveries.
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youngishbear









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:11 am
wondergirl wrote:
Thats silly, they will just lose money as their customers will just go to the grocery that is doing deliveries. And all because they didn't want to spend a little money and hire temp workers or yeshiva bochurim to make the deliveries. So they are cutting their nose off to spite their face and only hurting themselves in the process. Why would they do that? Rolling Eyes


I don't think they are doing this as a political move. It's genuinely difficult to find people willing to run around and drag boxes up flights of stairs.

I heard some bosses threatened to fire workers who didn't show up today. I truly sympathize with their position, but I admire those bosses who respect their workers' needs.
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wondergirl









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:19 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Its a one-day strike. There's a proud history of that in the US.

But again, how many yeshiva bochurs do you know who are willing to do deliveries.

The men/Yeshiva bochurim who deliver Shabbos food every Thursday for Shomer Shabbos can also deliver groceries. Problem solved.
But seriously, why wouldn't a yeshiva bochur want to earn a bit of money by making some deliveries? He can use the money to take a girl out on a date...
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youngishbear









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:23 am
wondergirl wrote:
The men/Yeshiva bochurim who deliver Shabbos food every Thursday for Shomer Shabbos can also deliver groceries. Problem solved.
But seriously, why wouldn't a yeshiva bochur want to earn a bit of money by making some deliveries? He can use the money to take a girl out on a date...


Have you seen yeshiva schedules nowadays? They don't usually leave time for such extracurriculars, especially if housewives expect their groceries within a reasonable timeframe.

IME, the boys who aren't in yeshiva refuse to do such difficult work.
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amother




Lemon


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:28 am
um....Yeshiva bochurim have a job already. your comment is disrespectful.
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wondergirl









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:29 am
youngishbear wrote:
Have you seen yeshiva schedules nowadays? They don't usually leave time for such extracurriculars, especially if housewives expect their groceries within a reasonable timeframe.

IME, the boys who aren't in yeshiva refuse to do such difficult work.

Everyone needs to exercise, even yeshiva bochurim. So they can take turns during the day and deliver groceries as needed as part of their "gym" extra-curriculars so to speak. What is so wrong about that? And they are strong men, why are they less capable of delivering groceries than other people? How can they manage with their camp packages or their Shomar Shabbos deliveries but can't manage delivering groceries to housewives?

What kind of work do boys do if they are not in yeshiva?
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youngishbear









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:33 am
wondergirl wrote:
Everyone needs to exercise, even yeshiva bochurim. So they can take turns during the day and deliver groceries as needed as part of their "gym" extra-curriculars so to speak. What is so wrong about that? And they are strong men, why are they less capable of delivering groceries than other people? How can they manage with their camp packages or their Shomar Shabbos deliveries but can't manage delivering groceries to housewives?

What kind of work do boys do if they are not in yeshiva?


This is so weird. Yeshivos would never send their students out on the streets for "gym class" - which around here is nonexistent and that discussion would take us way off topic.

It's not always about capability, but about willingness.

Are you saying that grocery delivery is on the same scale as Tomchei Shabbos?

I don't know whether those boys who were kicked out or not accepted into yeshivos are working at all, but the ones I know would not agree to do this kind of work. And again, discussing that population would take us even farther off topic.
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marina









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:40 am
amother wrote:
Yes, I work in the construction related field in a large community in the Tri state area. None of our Mexican workers are working. Nine of our suppliers Mexican workers are working- so no work, no deliveries, etc. both the legal and illegal workers are not working. But it is interesting to note that these are only Mexicans. The legal and illegal immigrants from other countries such as Ukraine Poland etc. are working today. Tells you something about their work ethic. My cleaning help hasn't showed up either, but that's probably because she's lazy Smile

I do find this very disturbing as America has been good to these people. They have harbored them and provided their children with equal opportunities etc. what is the purpose of striking? I think they're looking to be arrested by ICE today? They're just making us abhor them and their attitude of everything is coming to me even though I don't deserve it even more.

We Jews know that we don't strike and we appreciate the country we live in...


Dr. Mom- if you're not aware of any anti-immigrant sentiment (even against legals), please read some more imamother posts. Like the one above where the poster shares her distaste for all immigrants from Mexico, whether legal or illegal, because they are lazy and she hates them and they have an attitude of everything is coming to me.

She makes no distinction btw legal and illegal immigrants- just that the ones from Mexico are lazy and entitled. Get it?
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marina









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:45 am
m in Israel wrote:
I never really understood this argument. There are all sorts of awful situations in life that are "luck of the draw". Some people are born into super rich families and some people are born homeless. Does that make the homeless person entitled to break into the rich one's house and take some of his things to make it "fair"?

It is true that those who are lucky enough to have U.S. citizenship haven't done anything to "earn" it more than someone who can't get that citizenship due to factors that aren't in their control (like you mention finances, quotas, arbitrary rules, etc.) But if everyone just took whatever they wanted it would be the breakdown of all law and order in society.

And as much as there are so many heartbreaking stories about people desperate to come to the U.S., the U.S. can't accept all of the people in the world who are living in bad conditions. So yes, they need to have rules and systems as to how many people come in, and who. And those rules will inevitably leave many people who desperately want/need to come stuck out. Which is terrible for them. Unfortunately millions of people throughout the world live in some sort of "hell hole" or another. But that is not the fault of the U.S. government and doesn't make it any more "legal" for them to sneak in.

FWIW, I believe U.S. immigration law is a mess and needs a complete overhaul. But I don't see that as a reason to not crack down on illegal immigration.


If you are homeless, you don't get to break into someone's home and steal stuff. But you do get other help: you get agencies to try and put you on your feet again, you get people who are kind to you and give of themselves to try and make your life better. Because people understand that it was the luck of the draw and that the wheel of fortune turns and one day they may in fact be in your position.

Sure, we need to have immigration rules and borders and whatever. Otherwise, it's just impractical. But that doesn't mean we adopt an ignorant attitude of "I'm so special because I came here legally and why are you cutting the line, must be because you are lazy and entitled." It means we understand that most illegal immigrants come here illegally out of desperation like a homeless man who steals a loaf of bread. And if your attitude towards that man is anger instead of pity, there's something really wrong.
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wondergirl









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:47 am
youngishbear wrote:
This is so weird. Yeshivos would never send their students out on the streets for "gym class" - which around here is nonexistent and that discussion would take us way off topic.

It's not always about capability, but about willingness.

Are you saying that grocery delivery is on the same scale as Tomchei Shabbos?

I don't know whether those boys who were kicked out or not accepted into yeshivos are working at all, but the ones I know would not agree to do this kind of work. And again, discussing that population would take us even farther off topic.

What is weird about men or yeshiva boys exercising? It is healthy and would benefit them with their learning as well.

Why are they not willing to deliver groceries? If someone is a hatzalah member then they would have to do some heavy lifting as well, so why would it be any different than delivering groceries? Why would someone who is not working or not in yeshiva not want to earn a bit of money and get some weight lifting exercise in the process?

And yes, delivering Tomchei Shabbos packages is the same thing as delivering groceries because you are delivering groceries to people, just not making any money bc you are volunteering to do it (and wouldn't you want to earn money doing the same kind of work if you had the chance?). Why is one appropriate while the other isnt?
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sushilover









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:51 am
marina wrote:
If you are homeless, you don't get to break into someone's home and steal stuff. But you do get other help: you get agencies to try and put you on your feet again, you get people who are kind to you and give of themselves to try and make your life better. Because people understand that it was the luck of the draw and that the wheel of fortune turns and one day they may in fact be in your position.

Sure, we need to have immigration rules and borders and whatever. Otherwise, it's just impractical. But that doesn't mean we adopt an ignorant attitude of "I'm so special because I came here legally and why are you cutting the line, must be because you are lazy and entitled." It means we understand that most illegal immigrants come here illegally out of desperation like a homeless man who steals a loaf of bread. And if your attitude towards that man is anger instead of pity, there's something really wrong.


Do you have the same pity when you hear of a frum family of 10 lying and cheating the government out of taxes?


If the law is just, then those who break it are unjust.
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marina









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:51 am
amother wrote:
I agree with your other posts, but this one was unfair.
Many people wish they can clean up their own sh*** but can't do so for many reasons, and cleaning help is their saving grace.


Let me remind you of whom I responded to:

Quote:
I live in Williamsburg , Brooklyn. My mexican cleaning lady, {illegal} informed me that she isn't coming tomorrow. She didn't say why.... I have an urge to tell her to stay home Friday too....
what's your opinion
?

Of course people need cleaning help. But the post above makes this anonymous woman seem like an entitled a******. She tells us first that she is breaking the law by hiring an illegal woman in the first place. And then she wants to punish her cleaning help for making a statement.

This woman clearly is not one of the people that you reference, someone who "wishes she could clean up her own **** but can't do so for many reasons." If she was, she would appreciate her help and not consider docking her a day's pay. If she doesn't need her to come Friday because of this, she doesn't need her to come at all.

If everyone here can call out lazy and arrogant and entitled illegals, I can call our lazy and arrogant and entitled imamothers.
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amother




Scarlet


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:52 am
I heard that melania trump isnt working today.
Shes on strike
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marina









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 11:58 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Great idea.

More than half of seasonal farm workers -- you know, the folks who pick the crops -- are undocumented aliens. They make on the average of $10,000 to $12,499 a year. Next time anyone hear bemoans not being able to get a job, or her husband needing a job, please be sure to suggest it, using your own screen name, of course.

Undocumented aliens comprise 24 percent of all groundskeepers, 23 percent of domestic workers and 20 percent of those in clothing manufacture. So, again, I'm sure that you'll be suggesting that our less fortunate friends become domestic workers and landscapers.



Look Six, let's be very specific. Here's a poster who mentions her illegal cleaning woman:

Quote:
My mexican cleaning lady, {illegal} informed me that she isn't coming tomorrow. She didn't say why.... have an urge to tell her to stay home Friday too....
what's your opinion


I am 100% sure that this illegal is taking away someone's job. I am sure, in fact, that someone on imamother who is looking for work or whose child is looking for work would LOVE to clean for this poster instead.

Let's make this happen. If you are looking to clean people's homes and would like to be hired instead of this illegal who doesn't even want to come to work today, message me and I will let the poster know. I am sure she really doesn't want to be employing illegals anyway and just thought she had no choice. MAGA, hire an imamother to scrub your toilets!
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marina









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 12:00 pm
wondergirl wrote:
I fail to see why American citizens can't work in the fields. The Amish do it, why cant everyone else do that as well? In fact, many Americans do work in the fields, we even had a farmer on the Bachelor show one season and I am sure there are many more citizens who work on the farms as well. We can also create a program for students to work on the farms and give them credit for it in the same way they do internships or volunteer in other places.
And there are plenty of American citizens who can do domestic work, be groundskeepers, or manufacture clothing. In fact, there are many American citizens who do these kinds of work at least based on your statistics so why are illegal aliens given any credit for it? Why are they being hired altogether if there are American citizens who need these jobs?
Same goes for college, why should illegal aliens be accepted into these programs or be given financial aid just because they succeeded in breaking the laws and getting away with it? Why should a law abiding American citizen be turned away from college in favor of someone who had no legal right to be in this country in the first place?


They just don't. Read up on Arizona or other states where the governments cracked down on illegal immigrants and no citizens took their spots and now many fields lie fallow.
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SixOfWands









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 12:03 pm
sushilover wrote:
Do you have the same pity when you hear of a frum family of 10 lying and cheating the government out of taxes?


If the law is just, then those who break it are unjust.


Do you?

In Texas, a woman went into court to obtain a restraining order against her abusive boyfriend. She was arrested after court as an undocumented alien. The suspicion is that the abuser turned her in. (She did have a criminal record, but no outstanding warrants.)

You have no sympathy. Too bad she was being used as a punching bag; she shouldn't have been here in the first place.

So, do you have the same disdain for the family above? They're committing welfare fraud. Throw the adults in jail. Put the kids into foster care. Its illegal. No sympathy. And if mom or dad happen to be immigrants, kick them out. Even legal immigrants can be deported due to fraud. Good riddance.
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marina









  


Post  Thu, Feb 16 2017, 12:04 pm
sushilover wrote:
Do you have the same pity when you hear of a frum family of 10 lying and cheating the government out of taxes?


If the law is just, then those who break it are unjust.


is the frum family lying and cheating because they have very limited choices? Like maybe the dad has cancer and the mom is mentally unwell? And they have terrible health insurance?

Yeah, that's a little different for me than if the frum parents opted not to work because college is bad and kollel is good and the government owes them anyway because they learn Torah and make the world go round.

Like a woman who kills her husband in his sleep is wrong, but it's more understandable if she found him raping her child earlier.

I don't understand how a person of nuance such as yourself can just decide that laws are just and people who break them are wrong without any further deliberation. Are laws always just? What happens if they're not? What happens if the laws are just but the person's behavior is understandable somehow?
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