Berkeley riot organizer = insane idealogue

ectomorph

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 9:55 am

marina wrote:

Wondergirl, I saw this and thought of your post:

http://forward.com/fast-forwar.....tery/

Apparently Linda et al raised almost 60K to repair the vandalized Jewish cemetery. So there's that.

Sarsour is an awful person who has come under a lot of heat recently for her anti semitism.

She openly advocates for Sharia law to take over in the USA. She is anti Israel and told an fgm survivor who speaks out against fgm that she wants to rip her private part out.

This is an easy way out for her. Look, I'm not anti semitic - I support dead Jews.

Very much up her alley.

Sadie

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 10:03 am

ectomorph wrote:

Can you give some evidence for your claims? I looked up your claims myself and what you write here is not correct.

SixOfWands

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 10:14 am

Sadie wrote:

Can you give some evidence for your claims? I looked up your claims myself and what you write here is not correct.

Sarsour got into a Twitter war with a FGM survivor who opposed the Women's March. Sarsour wrote, "She's asking for an a$$ whippin'. I wish I could take their v@gin@s away -- they don't deserve to be women." ($$ hers, @ mine.) I don't think that can reasonably be read as saying that she wished to tear out her girl parts, although it certainly wasn't very nice.

She has also occasionally tweeted things like "if you're still paying interest then Sharia law hasn't taken over America." Again, ill-phrased, but a stretch to say that she supports the Muslim takeover of America, and replacing US law with Sharia.

She is unabashedly BDS and anti-Israel.

Few people are black or white; they're all shades of gray. Linda Sarsour is no exception.

ectomorph

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 10:23 am

Sadie wrote:

Can you give some evidence for your claims? I looked up your claims myself and what you write here is not correct.

Sure. I can't link links but she has tweeted, wouldn't you like zero interest rates under Sharia law? Her brother in law is part of Hamas.
There's more but I don't know how to copy and paste links on my smartphone.

Google wayback machine Linda sarsour tweet fgm and you'll find that tweet.

Sadie

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 10:24 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Agreed, what you've posted is exactly what I found. Nothing she writes indicates that she advocates s*xual violence against Hirsi Ali, or that she advocates a Sharia takeover of the US (although many people are trying to take away her right to practice Sharia privately, which is unconstitutional and which frum Jews should oppose en masse, if for no other reason than self-interest).

She's open about being a BDS supporter.

Sadie

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 10:32 am

ectomorph wrote:

Yes I saw all the links. They don't say what you claim they say.

marina

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 10:50 am

ectomorph wrote:

Wouldn't you like zero interest rates under halacha? Aren't you davening every day for moshiach which is when the Jewish version of sharia will be implemented? Do you not believe that gentiles will be very happy to serve Jews when that marvelous day comes?

And before you all jump all over me, plse note that if the wise posters in this thread can point Milo's valid points on fat-shaming, birth control vitriol, and $ex with teens, you all shouldn't get too angry with those of us who question your view of Linda.

Right? We had posters who wrote about how yeah, maybe fat shaming is good and old men screwing with 13-18 year old boys is normal, etc. So you won't mind if I point out how halacha, taken to its religious extreme ( sanhedrin etc) looks a lot like sharia law, and it's just that we don't yet have a theocracy like they do.

For the record, I find Linda to be extremist and misguided, although I also think, like Six, that people are complicated and she obviously has some good qualities.

PinkFridge

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 10:57 am

marina wrote:

I'm fairly Republican, think fat shaming is awful, made my views on underage sx abundantly clear, and look forward to the second half of Aleinu. Imagine said theocracy, but with clarity. As far as the gentiles serving us, I'm not thinking slaves, or the type of inexpensive help people who live in Mexico or South Africa regularly get. Actually I don't think about it too much.

youngishbear

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 11:28 am

Perhaps she sincerely believes that anti-Israel does not equal antisemitic.

Fox

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 11:37 am

marina wrote:

And before you all jump all over me, plse note that if the wise posters in this thread can point Milo's valid points on fat-shaming, birth control vitriol, and $ex with teens, you all shouldn't get too angry with those of us who question your view of Linda.

Right? We had posters who wrote about how yeah, maybe fat shaming is good and old men screwing with 13-18 year old boys is normal, etc. So you won't mind if I point out how halacha, taken to its religious extreme ( sanhedrin etc) looks a lot like sharia law, and it's just that we don't yet have a theocracy like they do.

Sorry, but I have to respond to this.

Your characterization is not only factually inaccurate, it represents precisely the attitudes that are so frightening.

Someone says something wildly unorthodox and provocative -- or quotes someone else who did so.

Some people want to respond by thinking about it, discussing it, and challenging their assumptions. For example, it's commonly agreed that "fat-shaming" is horrible. But the concept of public shame drives a lot of behaviors, many of them good. It makes sense to discuss and think about whether the taboo on fat-shaming is necessarily positive and what the limits and repercussions are.

However, other people respond by claiming, "That's horrible! How vile! No decent person would ever question such a thing!"

So now they've not only refused to participate in the intellectual discussion, they've defined anyone who wants to do so as a monster. Challenge this, and the response is usually something like, "Oh, so you think it's okay to sit around and discuss whether the Nazis were right?"

Now fat-shaming is equivalent to fascism and genocide, or even worse, hate speech.

Sorry, but a lot of us aren't going to play that game anymore. Nobody here said fat-shaming was "good." Nobody said that pederasty is okay. But what if they had? Would the world have ended? It could have been an interesting, important discussion.

Those kinds of challenges and conversations used to be the backbone of a liberal arts education. In fact, part of the professors' role was to specifically ask students to think through and articulate what distinguishes Nazis from fat-shamers. And the students stayed up all night arguing about it.

One of the things I miss most about college teaching is seeing kids realize that there are no questions that are too dangerous to ask. That's what a classical liberal education is all about, and its lessons shouldn't be abandoned in adulthood.

ora_43

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 12:10 pm

marina wrote:

Maybe it just comes down to this: He's not a sympathetic character. So I'm not sympathetic to his plight. Even if I can acknowledge that violence is wrong, etc, he is still a repulsive human being.

We all have limited energy and resources, etc. If I'm going to spend my time and brain space worrying about constitutional violations going on in this country, this incident with Milo is really pretty much at the bottom of my list.

This thread wasn't about him. I don't think he really has a "plight" - he was famous for saying offensive and occasionally genuinely thought-provoking things, now he's still famous for that, but even more people are angry with him. If he self-publishes his book he'll still make a whole lot more money off of it than I'm going to make in the next couple decades.

This thread is/was about the ideology behind the protests against him. I'm worried about that ideology because I think it's behind much of the creeping de-facto infringement on free speech, from all sides of the political spectrum.

You seem to be focused almost exclusively on the legal side of things. Part of why I care about incidents like this is that I think the main free speech/free press issues western society faces today aren't strictly legal.

SixOfWands

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 12:14 pm

youngishbear wrote:

Perhaps she sincerely believes that anti-Israel does not equal antisemitic.

A lot of people believe that.

Frankly, its correct in many case. You can oppose certain of Israel's policies without being antisemitic. Otherwise, most Israelis would be antisemitic (and who is who would depend on the current administration).

Its equating all Jews with Israel that is antsemitic.

SixOfWands

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 12:17 pm

ora_43 wrote:

Just re the book deal, I haven't seen it mentioned, but my guess is that it was a non-refundable advance. Unless he somehow breached, he keep a quarter million dollar advance. Not a bad day's work.

marina

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 12:32 pm

Fox wrote:

If you're complaining about people who think questions are dangerous, the very last poster on this forum to address is me. The very last.

AND I didn't even say whatever you think I said. I said- if you all can find excuses for Milo, I can have the same conversation about Linda. So I actually said the very opposite of what you're responding to, which is LET'S TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING.

Last edited by marina on Wed, Feb 22 2017, 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

Fox

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 12:47 pm

Of course, you know what this is all really about, don't you?

I'm Bored

Regent's Exams.

Yeah, I said it.

Remember, Milo was going to get conversion therapy from VP Pence in order to benefit from the deal Breitbart made with Barron and Tiffany regarding the unlicensed playgroup.

Unfortunately, the VP wasn't able to come through on his end of the deal. Milo is a tough case: they were able to make him feel an attraction to women, but he refuses to give up the pearls or his Mariah Carey collection. His new boyfriend, concerned about their future, squealed about the playgroup to his second cousin once-removed, who just happens to be part of the Black Congressional Caucus. The cousin-with-clout insisted that Breitbart find a way to get Milo to back off his ridiculous quest to avail himself of the playgroup or he would spill the whole story. Breitbart staff, knowing that all the other decent playgroups are full for the summer, initially threatened to kill Milo but were eventually negotiated down to allowing him to resign. Disaster averted.

Jeez, doesn't anybody read the news?!

marina

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 12:47 pm

Hey, Fox. Let's talk about why fat shaming is ok, but shaming people for agreeing with fat-shaming is not.

You're okay with shaming people for genetics, for medical conditions, for emotional challenges, but if I'm shaming you for defending Milo's ****, ooooh now that's outrageous. Maybe fat-shaming is a despicable societal behavior, akin to bullying and harassment, and I'd like it to end. Let's talk about the taboo on calling people out for their harassment and what the limits and repercussions are.

wondergirl

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 12:51 pm

Sadie wrote:

Who is trying to take away her right to practice Sharia law privately? What kinds of things would she be practicing in private under Sharia law?

Here is an interesting article about Sarsour and women's rights under Sharia law, what do you think about it?

Quote:

Sharia Law: Legal Abuse of Girls and Women
February 16, 2017 By Rachel Wahba

When proponents of Sharia Law organize national Women’s Marches it is time to ask questions. Do organizers Linda Sarsour and Gloria Steinem have the same objectives when they raise their fists in solidarity?

It looks like the Women’s Movement, a liberation movement I have proudly embraced, is being used for something other than Women’s Rights.

Since when do laws privileging male dominance over women fit into this struggle?

As Alternative Facts run rampant, liberal values are turned upside down when Gloria Steinem raises her fist with Sarsour and Rachel Maddow buys into Sarsour’s America being Islamophobic for fighting Sharia Law.

Did Maddow see Sarsour’s crude attack against Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a woman who continues to try to bring to light the dark night forced upon women in countries operating under Sharia? Was Maddow aware of Sarsour’s vicious tweets and taunts on Hirsi Ali after the film “The Honor Diaries” was released? How Hirsi Ali should have her private part ripped off for speaking out against genital mutilation and forced marriage, which Hirsi Ali endured and fled?

If a woman wants to dress modesty and cover her hair, there is plenty of room to do that in the United States. Modesty is freely practiced. But when a promoter of Sharia bemoans “Islamophobic” anti-Sharia laws and Maddow cries with her, I cry over the cunning manipulation we in the free world are prey to.

It is not Islamophobic to be against Sharia any more than it is sexist to arrest men who batter women.

The Women marched in the free world in the spirit of not going backwards. Sarsour’s belief system goes backwards further than the existence of the United States. Sharia law is poison for women trapped in countries that devalue and oppress and sit on their heads, crush their spirit and their minds. Sharia law is legalized abuse of women and girls.

In the United States we strive to criminalize not elevate abuse towards women.

We have laws set up to prevent and care for abused women. Battering women, rape, clit0ral mutilation and forced marriage are against the law. Women have equal rights in divorce. We don’t elevate the most primitive forms of sexism and turn them into some kind of “cultural” curiosity.

Women under Sharia law are dominated by their fathers and brothers and uncles in ways American women used to having civil rights cannot imagine. Accepting these unspeakable laws are not a choice in Islamic countries where Sharia is the law. Women dressed “immodestly” are dragged off the streets and beaten. Women are stoned in public for disobeying, for shaming their family, the men. They live in fear.

There is no choice, freedom is not for females. For free women to carte blanche Sharia law as if has a place in the women’s movement instead of anti- Sharia posters, and fighting for women who cannot speak up is a disgrace. We are aiding and abetting a hideous culture of male dominance over millions of girls and women buried alive under Sharia. We need to speak up, Hirsi Ali reminds us tirelessly, “because they cannot.”
It might appear hip and cool and maybe even s-xy to have sharia observant women lay hijabs on the heads of well-meaning marchers if it wasn’t so manipulative and ultimately misguided. wearing a head covering is not a big deal if it’s a choice. Being beaten, forced to cover up, owned as property, forced into marriage and treated like a lesser human being is a big deal, and it is never a “choice.”

Fact is, it’s not hip cool or humane for millions of women who are seriously deeply and heartbreakingly oppressed by these very laws and would do anything to rip these laws off their bodies if they could. If they could speak up without having to face consequences we in the free world don’t want to imagine, they would. In a heartbeat.

For the women marching against losing control of our lives it is ludicrous to allow proponents of Sharia law behave as if they are leaders in Women’s Liberation.

Sharia is antithetical to freedom for women. It is about male control of every female’s life from birth to death.

You can’t have it both ways, freedom means choice, and Sharia is anything but that.

http://www.rachelwahba.com/sin.....Women

marina

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 1:02 pm

I just deleted half my mean post because it was mean. Now I need a gold star. Or any sticker.

marina

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 1:10 pm

Most of the time anti-Sharia laws are passed, they focus on how court decisions can't be based on sharia law. This is not an issue- I've only seen one court decision that was bizarre that way. In general these law try to shut down their Islamic courts, the Muslim versions of botei din.

In light of that, think about our botein din and how people often perceive how Orthodoxy treats women. I think that if people found out that women cannot testify in our Jewish courts to the same extent that a man can, and that many women aren't allowed to drive and so on, society wouldn't look favorably on Halacha-law as well as Sharia-law.

treestump

Wed, Feb 22 2017, 1:19 pm

marina wrote:

I just deleted half my mean post because it was mean. Now I need a gold star. Or any sticker.

Here ya go, from one snowflake to another:

And thanks for your posts. I'm in awe of liberals who are still posting on Imamother, honestly! I totally gave up.

Last edited by treestump on Wed, Feb 22 2017, 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total