Why do super yeshivish women refer to me as Mrs?

amother

Pewter

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 8:40 pm

Just curious what the reasoning is... I'm in my 30s and find that sometimes (obviously not all) women (around my age) call me Mrs amother (instead of by my first name). They also occasionally refer to themselves as Mrs even when they are 10 years younger than I am. It always seems a little...awkward and distant to me. (Ftr, I have never introduced myself as Mrs amother to anyone).

I specified yeshivish because when it does happen, it's pretty much only with yeshivish/chassidish women, and never with modern Orthodox or non religious. Where does it come from?

amother

Ruby

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 8:47 pm

I am from such a background myself. Growing up it was expected for me to call older ladies Mrs so and so. Ie neighbors friends etc. now I would call women in my age group by first name but would call older people Mrs so and so out of respect unless they specifically asked me to call them by first name.
I work in an office where I schedule appt over the phone and when I ask for name they refer tell me mrs________ and I have to ask a few times for first name. This even when they are young and barely 20 years old.

amother

Cobalt

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 8:50 pm

I don't really know the answer as only someone who calls you or others with the title "mrs." can properly answer. Here are my guesses:

maybe they were taught to address adults that way out of respect

perhaps if you tell them something like "you can call me sara" they will address you by your first name

maybe they do not know your name

I find it strange that people call themselves "mrs whoever" - that is very impersonal unless they are introducing themselves to a man. My daughter's teachers are very yeshivish and older than I am but when they call me they always say their first name.

imasinger

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 8:51 pm

I think it comes from the idea that formality is a classy way to behave.

At one point in time, it was a common sign of respect to refer to people by their title and last name. You still see some holdovers in formal events, or more prestigious titles. Mr. President. Dr. Jones.

Go back and read Jane Austen. Mr. Knightly. Miss Smith. First names were only for family, or the very closest of friends.

In many yeshivas, they use the formal old European system of addressing deeply respected people in the third person. (While greeting the man). "Would the rebbe care for a drink of water?"

At my DD's BY, the menahel makes a point of addressing the girls as Miss X.

For those who grow up with this, today's informality is uncomfortable. There is a sense that you can't go wrong by being more respectful.

There is nothing wrong with responding, "oh, I hope we'll be friends as well as (fill in the blank -- co PTA members, colleagues, whatever). Please call me amother.". Most will respond by offering their first name in return.

But if they don't, please don't take it as rudeness.

singleagain

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 9:03 pm

I recently binged Downton Abbey and there was definitely a protocol for addressing both upstairs and downstairs residence. Upstairs since it was all aristocracy it was all Lady/Miss/Lord/Sir the relatives even called each other Cousin Firstname at first, especially to an older generation.

The downstairs was also very interesting, bc there were certain positions where bc they were considered lower, they were just last names, then there were higher positions that were also just last names no title... But the most interesting and reason for my post, is that the unmarried cook and housekeeper were both older women addressed as Mrs. Lastname. When I asked I was told it was a sign of respect to be Mrs.

Also I remember growing up, I had friends whose mothers were Mrs. Lastname.. but if anyone called my mother Mrs. Lastname, she'd say "Mrs. Lastname is my mother in law, I'm Firstname." .... However, I still have friends who call my mom Mrs. Lastname, bc it was so ingrained into them by their mother to not use first names

ectomorph

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 9:10 pm

imasinger wrote:

this. Weirdly I have a friend who I knew as a kid as an adult and I still call her Mrs. Last name
I also have a friend the same age as her, but we became friends after I got married and I call her First name.
I don't like when my MO friends kids call me by my first name - I feel disrespected. It's very much a cultural thing.

amother

Pink

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 9:17 pm

The only time I call myself Mrs. is when I'm speaking to my children's teachers because experience has taught me that when I call and say hi it's Jane Doe, they get confused that I'm not saying hi it's Jill Doe's mom, and they're trying to place who Jane is. So instead I say hi it's Mrs. Doe, Jill's mom.
And I'm not yeshivish Smile

amother

Seashell

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 9:20 pm

I identify as "yeshivish" and can say with confidence that I was raised to address all female adults with the "Mrs" (or "Ms.") prefix unless otherwise indicated. To do any less would be considered rude and overly familiar. (As a 33 year old woman I still think twice and cringe mentally before addressing my older neighbor by her first name even though she asked me to - it *feels* wrong).

amother

Green

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 9:40 pm

This is a little off topic but I think it's just a formality thing. But I think the addressee should be the one who decides how they are addressed.

There was only one time I recall asking to be addressed as Mrs. I normally just use my first English name. We were at a large Shabbos meal and a friend's not very knowledgeable BT husband was going on and on about how you should use only Hebrew names. And then he was asking people what their Hebrew name was (if they went by an English name) and then was calling people by the Hebrew name. In general thought if he was 'so frum' then he shouldn't be talking to me at all. So when he asked me for my Hebrew name, I said-

"It's Plonit. But YOU can call me Mrs Amother".

zaq

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 10:18 pm

Ha! I thought OP was going to say she introduces herself as Ms. Lastname and people call her Mrs. I'm Ms. Zaqarias everywhere except in frum society. When my kids were in school I referred to myself as Mrs. Zaqarias because I noticed that the only women listed as Ms. were the divorcees. Single women were Miss and married women or widows were Mrs. except when they were Rebbetzin, or
rarely, Dr. This of course completely misses the point (ouch, ouch, ouch, that was NOT intended!) of the term Ms., which is that just as a man's marital status is nobody's business unless he decides to share it, so, too, a woman's marital status is nobody's business unless she decides to share it. (We're not talking shidduchim here and whether or not a prospect is Kohen-eligible.)

I generally introduce myself as Zenobia Zaqarias unless I'm talking to a child. ( That is for identification purposes only. I still expect to be called Mrs. or Ms. Zaqarias unless I indicate otherwise. ) Even if Zaqarias isn't exactly Cohen and Levine, there are still a few of us. One is my mil may she live and be well till 120. Some are my dils, some are my sils, some are my sils' dils, and some are not related to us at all, but may they all live and be well till 120. If I call someone and say "hello, this is Mrs. Zaqarias", how are they supposed to know which Mrs. Zaqarias I am? Sure, if they know my kids I can say "This is Mrs. Zaqarias, Zuleika's mom" but in some families even that wouldn't help because all the cousins name kids after the same great-grandparents and there are at least four to five kids with the idenbtical names. And if they don't know my kids, identifying myself through them is of no value at all. Besides, who says I want to be known as simply "Zuleika's mom"? I am a person in my own right, thank you very much, and I deserve to be recognized as such.

amother

Green

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 10:43 pm

Fox wrote:

Green Amother, a lot of times people don't want to use first names for chinuch reasons. When my kids were younger, people would occasionally ask to be called by their first names, but we would veto it and try to explain that we didn't want to accustom our kids to that practice.

And what if these same people insisted that THEIR children call you by YOUR first name because they wanted to educate their children to be FRIENDLY instead of overly formal and aloof? Would you have been ok with that?

amother

Papaya

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 10:50 pm

amother wrote:

Distance implies respect. It's why our own kids don't call us by our first names.

Would you think a mother has the right to decide that she wants her kids calling her by her first name?

Or would you think that there's something objectively wrong with that, from a chinuch / raising emotionally healthy children point of view?

Fox

Sun, Feb 19 2017, 10:56 pm

amother wrote:

I would ask where they got the idea that using first names connotes friendliness while using titles and last names connotes aloofness.

I would also point out that asking children to use first names for adults is very disrespectful -- to the children. It implies an equality of relationship that doesn't really exist. Asking someone to call you by your first name implies a level of equality in the relationship; if that's not true, then the pretense of equality is just mean.