Are you a fabulous gourmet cook?

33055

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 10:17 am

amother wrote:

I have probably been to over 20 ashkenaz families around the country and many more in the places that I lived and they have all been pretty close to that bad. They don't seem to realize it though, that's the thing that I don't get. They seem to think its delicious. It's either just taste level or they don't have access to good food and don't know what its supposed to taste like. I don't get it. But if they are happy, to each his own:)

Have you ever eaten Hungarian Ashkenazi food? Some of the best Shabbos food is heimesh.

I sort of agree with you that Shabbos food can be mediocre. Often all the food on the plate are shades of brown/tan. Traditional Shabbos foods are made with ingredients that were cheap in the old countries. Gefilte food is stretched out fish. Patchav is ground up grizzle. Chicken soup was made with left over parts like feet. Potato kugel is potatoes, eggs, and onions. Traditionally, only basic spices and lots of oil are used. They use duck sauce/mayo/chicken soup mix/ketchup/onion soup mix to add flavor. These are not gourmet ingredients. Right now our president is mocked for adding ketchup to his well done steak. Sometimes it seems quantity over quality.

When these ingredients are in the hands of an excellent Hungarian cook, the results can be delicious. They definitely can please a crowd.

tigerwife

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 10:35 am

mha3484 wrote:

Tigerwife this is the rice with crumbs. I make a double batch in 4 8x8 pans and freeze 3. We are only 2 adults 2 kids. Rice with crunb topping

I make a lot of ethnic foods. Chinese, asian, mexican, indian.

I also always serve something green usually broccoli or brussel sprouts. If I make mushrooms, I buy the fancy mixed kind for shabbos. Its small things that make the meal feel gourmet without a lot of patcke.

Interesting variation on rice! Thanks for putting it up for me!

tigerwife

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 10:40 am

By the way, I am not a fabulous gourmet cook embarrassed

(though I'm not bad!), but I opened the thread to see what others do and then replied what I make every week.

I do find that little extra steps make a difference, like sautéing mushrooms for the salad or adding a hot drink with dessert in the winter (boil up some apple cider with cinnamon sticks, cloves, allspice- delicious!)

Sunny Days

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 12:01 pm

Yes, I agree with squishy 100%! My mother does lots of Hungarian type food (btw we do plenty hot n spicy and Medit. as well) and we've had guests from all nationalities (lots of geirim and BT's from all over the world) and ffb Syrian, Iranian etc they all loved her food.
Some of it is gourmet and some simple traditional shabbos food but cooked and baked with love and techinos with a delicious gourmet taste. ( We r chasidish and do a full traditional shabbos meal plus lots of extras. A typical shabbos u will find at least 4 different chicken/ meat options on the menu plus different kugels and pies. Salads and dips galore)
My mother does her own gefilte fish and noodles and everything must be fresh so taste is top priority ( of course challah fresh as well, it usually comes out of the oven minutes before shabbos starts)! I agree with chartreuse that some people cook more bland ( like my mil, can't she add some at least SALT????) But that is not a blanket statement on all Ashkenazi food and is kind of insulting Sad

I think u should come to us for Purim!

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 2:43 pm

I am Ashkenaz. I like using fresh, homemade ingredients (with no sugar, oil and canned foods) to spice my foods. And no I don't make gefilte fish, to me and my dh it tastes like soggy cake. I think what turns a regular dish into sub par, is the steps you take in preparing it, like completely drying the meat and fish before sauteing. And I think nowadays it doesn't take much (maybe some blog reading) to know how to prepare professional dishes.

saw50st8

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 3:11 pm

This thread is really interesting. Our meals are all over the map, but prep needs to be fast. I don't have the time or energy to actually cook anything that takes lots of steps. I was much more of a gourmet pre-kids. I break out my gourmet streak for Rosh Hashana usually to ring in the new year fabulously.

I love gefilte fish but don't usually serve it on shabbos. I like mine hot. We don't serve super traditional ashkenazi food but we do have some. I've toned down spices since having kids because they don't like very spiced foods. But we have an interesting variety. On weeks when I don't have time or energy to cook, my husband makes cholent (I think cholent is gross overall, but my husband and kids love it). I definitely prefer sephardic food, but I don't have the time or energy for the process of making it.

I grew up in a very German family so I don't have the Hungarian love of sugar, ketchup and duck sauce. I also avoid chicken soup mix, onion soup mix, mushroom soup mix and the like, so I add real fresh flavors. I love cilantro and parsley and garlic.

As to amother chartruese, we all have different taste buds, so what might be bland to you might be overspiced for someone else. There is no "just right amount" for everyone.

JAWSCIENCE

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 3:13 pm

I also think it is rude and not helpful to post a generalization about a group of people. It is one thing to say you don't care for Ashkenazic food or Asian food or whatever type of cuisine and quite another to sweepingly say all *insert ethnicity here * people are bad cooks or do not take the necessay extra steps Or they have no love (whatever that means) in their cooking etc. it makes it sound like less of a preference for certain foods and more of a personal vendetta against a group of Jews. plus it is invariably wrong. There are way more than 20 ashkenaz families In The world. I'm sure some of them can cook. They just haven't invited you for dinner.

33055

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 3:33 pm

JAWSCIENCE wrote:

Gourmet food is a certain type of food of which Ashkenazi food isn't. It is not to say that it can't be delicious. It simply is not gourmet food.

Refined food with elaborate preparation is gourmet. It is a cultural ideal and French food is the standard.

33055

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 3:35 pm

fs wrote:

I think some blog reading can definitely raise your cooking to the levels to kosher restaurant chefs, but it takes a lot more than that to produce gourmet meals.

egam

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 3:44 pm

Squishy wrote:

This is not about Ashkenazi food being gourmet or not. It's about labeling all Ashkenazis as lousy cooks.

Yes, it's not gourmet, but gourmet doesn't not equal tasty.

MagentaYenta

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 3:47 pm

Squishy wrote:

...

Refined food with elaborate preparation is gourmet. It is a cultural ideal and French food is the standard.

Gourmet food has progressed far beyond Escoffier. Since the 60s the elaborate preparation rituals of traditional haute cuisine French cooking gave way to the more simpler recipes of Nouvelle cuisine. Presentation and saucing changed radically, requiring less intensive preparation than haute cuisine. (Presentation is ambitious, but no longer really a standard, simply a hook.) Jacque Pepin's work from the 70's to the present is a good example of these changes although Bocouse and Verge were the leaders of the pack.

JAWSCIENCE

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 3:55 pm

Squishy wrote:

The key to your post is you said "ashkenaz food". Previous amother post was referring to Ashkenazi people and saying they can't cook and do not take the time to cook properl and don't have love in their cooking. Big difference. Like I said in my post there's nothing wrong with not liking a certain type of cuisine or saying it isn't gourmet. I agree cholent would never be called gourmet. That doesn't mean ashlenaz people can't cook. It was the sweeping generalization about an ethnic group that I was saying was rude. Not characterizing a type of food

JAWSCIENCE

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 4:24 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Ah but when cholent becomes cassoulet it is. And cassoulet can be made in a kosher version.

I watched this guy on the food network show chopped say he was making cassoulet and the judges said "so you are serving us pork and beans essentially yes?" I could not stop laughing. People can be so pretentious sometimes. He took it well though.

MagentaYenta

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 4:31 pm

JAWSCIENCE wrote:

It's a pity that the judge took such a simplistic position. I'm not a cholent eater, but I will make a cassoulet for shabbos a few times a year. It's a bit more complex than pork and beans I assure you. The first time I made it I started from scratch, including a whole goose, and making my own confit. Now I've learned to take shortcuts, a good chicken cooked in schmaltz after it's pickle makes life a bit easier. I don't use store bought kosher sausage, but I do take and hour to make my own etc.

MagentaYenta

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 4:39 pm

fs wrote:

Isn't cassoulet cholent cooked in a stone pot?

It's a cholent made with goose/duck/ or chicken that has been dry brined with spices and then cooked in poultry fat (that is the confit). The stock is made from the chicken back, lamb and beef bones. Typically it contains pork and pork sausage but a good spicy merguez works just as well. Unlike cholent, the prep is a bit time consuming and is done over a number of days. I make confit about once a year and store the boned chicken meat in the schmaltz in the fridge. So when I'm in the mood I just let the schmaltz liquify and pick out the amt. of confit I need.

It is slow cooked and traditionally made in clay pots, but a good enamel cast iron works, or even a large glass or pyrex will do. ETA I've had some very good cassoulet made in a crock pot and I learned to make my confit in a sous vide, no worry, no watching or standing over the stove.

Last edited by MagentaYenta on Tue, Feb 28 2017, 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 4:40 pm

Squishy wrote:

I think some blog reading can definitely raise your cooking to the levels to kosher restaurant chefs, but it takes a lot more than that to produce gourmet meals.

Please tell me what kosher restaurant chef meals are? and what cuisine is considered gourmet? genuinely curious. Thanks.

33055

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 4:46 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

I wasn't writing a treatise. I was simply trying to explain by contrasting Ashkenazi food to gourmet food.