Hikind: Stop Scapegoating Trump For Anti-Semitism

WhatFor

Mon, Feb 27 2017, 2:58 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

WhatFor, I understand your frustration. How would you suggest stopping people from making random phone calls?

Anyone, anywhere in the country, could use a disposable cell phone and say something stupid. By the time the FBI got a trace on it, the person would be long gone. It could be one person in Malaysia making those calls, or a whole bunch of individuals across the US, doing it on their own. If it's a bunch of copy cat threats, and none of these people even know each other, then you can't even call it a terror conspiracy.

It's the modern day equivalent of kids calling their neighbors and asking "Is your refrigerator running?" (Well, you'd better go catch it!)

I think that people think that as long as there is no actual bomb, and no harm done to anyone, that it's not a serious crime. It is, of course, but people like that don't think things through very well, or don't care about consequences.

Let's think about it for one second. Imagine someone was calling the White House with a bomb threat every single day, so that the wh had to be evacuated. How soon do you think the POTUS would get on the podium and detail exactly what would happen to the people who were caught?
And you don't think these 70 bomb threats are in any way coordinated? I'm not tech savvy, but I would imagine that these calls can be tracked to general areas and eventually narrow in on someone. Also, the FBI can get access to account information and call records, or offer rewards for those who turn in the person(s) making the bomb threats... I don't think the approach that "this is impossible" is the answer.

SixOfWands

Mon, Feb 27 2017, 3:23 pm

Laiya wrote:

Regarding the white spremacists. It's disturbing that there are people who hate us, but white supremacists are not a meaningful political force. There are only 5,000 people in America affiliated with KKK chapters (according to my quick googling).

They've carried out a few lone wolf hate crimes, but they are not nearly as concerning as the Islamists, who are supported by the left.

Shall we start with Timothy McVeigh, Terrance Nichols, and Eric Rudolph, and work our way forward to, say, Dylan Rooff?

In any case, the Left doesn't support "Islamists." The Left recognizes that its not useful to conflate any particular religious group with terrorism.

As to Hifkind's comments, while anti-semitism has been on the rise over the past several years, the number of attacks has risen precipitously since Trump's election. I read that the number of incidents in NYC has doubled. Not to mention what has become the almost routine bomb threats against JCCs which are starting to take their toll as people decide against enrolling their children in JCC programs. And the current administration was silent, even when specifically asked about it on two separate occasions.

And given Trump's comments on Judge Curiel, on Mexican immigrants, his conflation of the African American community with the "inner city," his retweeting of racists and racist memes, his refusal to condemn David Duke and the alt.right, etc etc., he has led the racists to believe that they have an ally in the White House. Whether or not you believe that he is a racist is irrelevant; they do. Which is why it is so important that Trump speak out clearly and unequivocally.

But like many on the right, they'd rather blame the Left than take any positive action themselves.

And FTR, while I was staunchly opposed to Ellison, and am very disappointed in Schumer for supporting him, he's a lot more nuanced than people here claim. He wrote, "I have long supported a two-state solution and a democratic and secure state for the Jewish people, with a democratic and viable Palestinian state side-by-side in peace and dignity. I don't believe boycotting, divesting and sanctioning Israel helps us achieve that goal." He helped prosecute Holocaust deniers. Several times in Congress, he issued statements calling on Hamas to stop launching rocket attacks on Israel. At a 2009 event sponsored by the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee, he said, "If you have sympathies to the Palestinian cause, I urge you to put on the shoes of someone who is Jewish,” he said. Last year, he joined with Minnesota State Rep. Fred Hornstein to condemn antisemitism. “As a person of the Muslim faith, I urge everybody, not just the leaders, but including the leaders to condemn these antisemitic acts. This is reprehensible. This is wrong.” And while his earlier ties to Farrakhan, as well as some more recent troubling comments, made him problematic for me, its not fair to paint him as an all-out Israel hater, or as an anti-semite.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Feb 27 2017, 3:30 pm

WhatFor wrote:

I never said anything was impossible. Just pointing out some potential difficulties.

The White House phone lines are a lot more secure than the average JCC.

I'm in favor of punishing the callers to the fullest extent of the law. I just don't think that getting scolded by the president is going to make anyone think twice before doing it. Giving these creeps publicity is exactly what they want. Let the FBI do their job.

dancingqueen

Mon, Feb 27 2017, 8:31 pm

ectomorph wrote:

Bannon is not an anti semites. That charge is based on a statement his ex wife said. As opposed to Ellison, who has made actual anti semitic statements.

What makes you say that he is not an anti-Semite?

For someone who is so outspoken, Trump has been very loathe to talk about antisemitism, leaving Jews out of his yom hashoah speech, getting angry at reporters who bring it up, and not condemning antisemitic acts of recent weeks. It would be nice if he would say something especially since so many Orthodox Jews support him so wholeheartedly.

Fox

Mon, Feb 27 2017, 8:58 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

What makes you say that he is not an anti-Semite?

Well, the fact that a pretty wide range of Jews who've worked for him, including at least one who apparently loathes him, claim that they've never seen any evidence of anti-Semitism.

dancingqueen wrote:

For someone who is so outspoken, Trump has been very loathe to talk about antisemitism, leaving Jews out of his yom hashoah speech, getting angry at reporters who bring it up, and not condemning antisemitic acts of recent weeks. It would be nice if he would say something especially since so many Orthodox Jews support him so wholeheartedly.

Trump made a statement about a week ago against anti-Semitism and sent VP Pence to represent the administration at a cemetery cleanup as well as make a statement.

I'm not opposed to Trump or members of his administration making statements, etc., but we've had a long history of presidents who say one thing while doing another. FDR and Nixon for starters. So statements to the press only go so far.

dancingqueen

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 11:10 am

Fox wrote:

Yes he did finally make a statement, which is good, though after weeks of pressure and shooting down questions on the topic. Pence's gesture was a nice one.

Are there a lot of Jews who write for breitbart? Interesting. A lot of other people think Brannon is antisemitic and influences Trump in that direction.

SixOfWands

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 11:27 am

Fox wrote:

There are those who think that Trump's words were woefully inadequate:

https://www.washingtonpost.com.....292dc

I'd like to see more action. There was another wave of bomb threats this week.

Fox

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 1:11 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

Are there a lot of Jews who write for breitbart? Interesting. A lot of other people think Brannon is antisemitic and influences Trump in that direction.

I don't know if it's still the case, but there used to be minyanim at the Breitbart offices in LA. Joel Pollak, who recently went up against Joy Behar on The View, is an observant Jew. Ben Shapiro, who left Breitbart a while back, has called Bannon several names that are inappropriate for Imamother, but has said that he never witnessed anything that could be remotely construed as anti-Semitic. Aaron Klein, the editor-in-chief in Yerushalayim, has also defended Bannon.

The rumors are based on remarks Bannon's ex-wife claims she heard him make regarding the number of Jews in his children's school along with his comment that Breitbart was the "platform of the alt-Right." No one knows precisely what he meant by the "platform" comment, and he's never discussed it.

I've been reading Breitbart since shortly after Andrew Breitbart, a"h, was niftar. In fact, I will admit that I was initially drawn to the site in part because they offered smart, sophisticated coverage of Jewish and Israeli issues without being condescending to the Torah-observant community or mocking our values.

WhatFor wrote:

Can you post the source that says the Trump sent Pence? I wouldn't just assume that everything Pence does represents Trump or his ideologies. As we learned during the debates, the two don't even see eye to eye on global policy.

Once a VP takes office, the primary part of his/her job is to publicly represent the administration. Every single sound byte and bathroom break is scrutinized by a liaison team to make sure the VP doesn't contradict official administration stands in any way.

SixOfWands wrote:

I'd like to see more action. There was another wave of bomb threats this week.

Agreed. If they asked my advice (and once again, strangely, no one has!), I would tell the President to hold a press conference along with James Comey and a gaggle of intimidating-looking G-Men for the purpose of telling Americans that we're not going to threaten, vandalize, or otherwise harm people whom we don't like because of race, religion, national origin, s-xual orientation, or obnoxious Facebook bragging.

Comey would then say a few words and turn things over to the most Eliot-Ness-looking SAC they can find, who would put everyone to sleep with a combination of legal and law enforcement jargon we don't really understand.

Of course, this scheme borrows heavily on the fact that I'm a Chicagoan. Former Mayor Richard M. Daley saw press conferences as an extension of the family dining room, and he behaved like an overworked dad at the end of a long day. We could count on lectures about our parking habits, littering in the parks, and driving too fast on Lake Shore Drive. I don't know if this would work. Not everyone appreciates that sort of paternal model of governing, though in Mayor Daley's defense, we were never known as "Chiraq" during his 22 years in office.

SixOfWands

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 1:21 pm

WhatFor wrote:

Fox wrote:

I don't think that's necessarily the case here. Trump has hung Pence out to dry twice already. First when he was given inaccurate information by Flynn. Second when Bannon contradicted Pence regarding the EU. I feel kind of sorry for Pence at times.

But I've no clue if he was sent by Trump, or if he just thought it was a good idea.

Fox

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 1:25 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Very true. This speaks to what has always been, IMHO, Trump's biggest weakness: without experience or political capital, his administration doesn't quite get how all this works.

President Carter had the same problem. He was elected because everyone was sick of Watergate and "politics as usual." Unfortunately, we discovered that "politics not as usual" isn't necessarily an improvement.

SixOfWands

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 4:48 pm

amother wrote:

These bomb threats just reached Australia. Do you want to blame Trump for it as well?

http://www.haaretz.com/world-n.....74498

I'm not sure why you needed to be anonymous to post an article.

Whatevs.

I don't blame Trump for the antisemitic attacks. I blame him for tacitly condoning racism throughout his campaign, purposely leading antisemites and other racists to believe that he supported them, and for not immediately and vigorously condemning these attacks. All of which emboldens some people. I also blame him for that bizarre statement, which can certainly be read to mean that he believes that Jews are themselves committing these attacks in order to smear him.

amother

Salmon

Tue, Feb 28 2017, 5:11 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Trump promoted racism and anti-semitism? He is supporting black colleges and is pro-school choice which would give money for you to send your kids to your Jewish religious school. And he is pro-Israel which is something that Obama was openly against. So he is not promoting racism or anti-semitism but he is also not shutting down people who are not politically correct, only self-righteous left wing democrats, who are against free speech do that since they dont care about the rights of American citizens who they disagree with and this story is a perfect example of that-- http://www.fox13news.com/news/238670564-story .

But I don't think that anything Trump says or does will make satisfy you so why should he bother trying when he could just continue with his mission to make America great again?

Oh, and why isnt the shomrim doing anything about these bomb threats? Surely they have ways of monitoring and tracking the calls so they could have found the perps by now. We have shomrim for this exact reason to protect Jews from harm instead of relying on the cops or fbi for it. Any reason why they are not involved in protecting the JCC's in question?