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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Preschoolers
Rigid, ritualistic behaviors in otherwise typcial 4 yr old?



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amother
Lime


 

Post Wed, Mar 01 2017, 7:16 pm
My four year old son is a sweet boy who, according to his Morahs, is amazing during school. He is bright, plays with other kids well, and has no issues according to his teachers.
At home, however, I am noticing increases in ritualistic like behaviors. For example, he must be the one to open the door when someone knocks, and he has to hide behind the door just so when the person opens it. If someone else opens it, he starts insisting that the person goes out again, and he opens the door this time. He will not give in, we are talking about a full tantrum after this happens.

I must give him the spoon for his cereal in his hand- if I put it down on the table or in the bowl- he makes me do it over again and this time place in his hand.

He just recently started insisting in sitting in the same exact spot during breakfast, and before he sits, he pushes his chair in just so.

He freaks out if anyone says Amen to his brachos. If we say it- he says the bracha over again.

Just some examples that are coming to mind. I am not sure if this is typical 4 year old boy stuff- needing routines and comfort in same things, or should I be concerned. It is impacting our lives- the tantruming and constant "doing over."

I know their are some books for overcoming OCD like tendencies for kids- but they all seemed geared for older kids. Anyone know any techniques or strategies I can try with him? I have spoken to him about being flexible, like- "Sometime you get the door, and sometimes mommy gets the door," over and over again. But not really making a difference.
Again, his teachers have no concerns in school about any of this and they say he is a dream child.

Thank you so much for your insights!
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Wed, Mar 01 2017, 7:33 pm
My daughter was like this. We just went with the flow, although that was not always possible.We took the freak-outs as teaching opportunities. For example, "It's not your turn to _____. I'm sorry you missed your chance. Next time, you can try again." For what it's worth; it's hard to reason with a child like this. But it probably doesn't hurt to hear the message repeated calmly, over and over. She is a quirky teenager now, but BH no mental health problems.
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amother
Slategray


 

Post Wed, Mar 01 2017, 7:44 pm
My son is like this and his therapist explained as follows:
A certain amount of people are predisposed to OCD-like behaviors. They can keep them in check and be healthy--that means that they like things a certain way but can manage when it doesn't work out (think of people you know that like things orderly, clean etc). The problem is that when a child who is predisposed to OCD is triggered by a stressful period of time (even the birth of a baby or start of school for some) or is abused, the OCD becomes more intense in an effort to feel in control over a world which is scary and unclear. The more rules they make up and follow, the more safe and predictable the world seems. According to my son's therapist who is literally world renowned, almost all cases of childhood OCD begin with a trauma or stressful event. The treatment of OCD is different than the treatment of trauma induced OCD. This is because the rules that are made up are often to ease a fear (for example, if I don't answer the door, a bad person might come. I will always answer the door). After some time, they forget the reason, and the obsession becomes about the rule itself, not the fear, because the whole point is the control it makes them feel, not about safety. Therefore, the treatment looks at the origin of the fear and gently exposes them to their fears. Most children with trauma induced OCD do not have the full disorder , rather they are AT RISK, and on the way to making a habit of using rules to feel control, which results in OCD as an adult. One more side point--the therapist says to allow a certain amount of rituals unless they are causing other a lot of time or distress, because remember, naturally they are wired to like order, and not all of it is dysfunctional.
First off, get an evaluation. Post again if you'd like more info or have more questions.
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amother
Red


 

Post Wed, Mar 01 2017, 7:58 pm
My 3 year old behaves in ways pretty similar to what you're describing and I thought it was somewhat age appropriate, needing to be in control, mild anxiety, behavior embarrassed

This is not my first kid embarrassed embarrassed embarrassed
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groovy1224




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 01 2017, 8:07 pm
My son was exactly like that. Same age, otherwise normal, social, did well in school, etc. But he ALWAYS had to be the one to turn on the light, or get the yogurt from the fridge, etc. Flipped out if someone (usually his little brother) didn't let him have his way.

Ultimately, the best thing you can do is try to pre-empt the tantrums. If it's something like taking the spoon out of the drawer, live and let live. Give him the space he needs to feel in control. Or, when you're getting ready, (before the stressor situation occurs) explain that today mommy will be opening the door, or that he will get a sticker or mitzvah note for letting someone say amein. Prevention is the strongest tool you have.

Obviously though, it's not always practical to let him have his way. In those situations, validation is really important. Though you are in those moments probably extremely frustrated and exasperated because he's having a melt down over who opened his pretzels, do your best to offer him words to express his upset. "You're very upset because mommy opened the door, and you wanted to do it? I'm so sorry sweetie, how about next time?" and let him tantrum away, as long as hes not hurting himself or others. This is the hardest part, because it will happen in front of other people, or at stressful times like when you're trying to get going in the morning. But he will take comfort in you remaining calm, because it shows him that you believe in him enough to be able to to overcome this, and not give in every time just to avoid a blow up.

It can take months before you will begin to see results from this, and it will likely get worse before it gets better, but try to remain patient and loving and he will get there. You say that your explanations are falling on deaf ears, but I promise you they're not, it just takes a long time to see changes. I had the exact same thoughts as you, thinking it was OCD behavior, took him to a behavioral psychologist, but in the end he's just a bright, passionate boy who likes to be in control. Be consistent, loving, and firm, and you both will get there.

You can PM me if you want to vent some more, I totally understand where you're coming from. I have some other techniques thay helped, but I need to get to bed Wink
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Thu, Mar 02 2017, 3:08 am
Anon to protect my friend's identity.

I know someone who has a high functioning autistic daughter. The girl used to rule the house with all of her crazy routines and patterns.

My friend decided to make her daughter sleep in a different part of the house every night. The girl never knew where she was going to sleep that night, until just before bedtime. Under the dining room table, on the sofa, in her bed, on the floor by her mom, etc. Nothing abusive or scary, just different and unpredictable.

She did this on a doctor's advice, so don't try it without guidance. All I can say is that the girl is now a much more flexible adult, adapts to new situations smoothly with just a little prompt, and has a lot less anxiety than most autistic people have.

It's worth looking into.
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goforit




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 02 2017, 7:06 am
If this behaviors are something that started recently please check if he has pandas. A blood test can check his antibodies levels. Did he have strep in the last few months? Ocd characteristics are a huge of pandas and is treatable. Hatzlacha
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 02 2017, 8:57 am
I agree this sounds very likely to be PANDAS. The behaviors look a lot like OCD (I am familiar with very rigid ASD behaviors and this still sounds more like OCD to me) but the sudden onset makes it more likely to be biologically triggered than psychological.

Even if you didn't have a known strep infection it could be he had the bacteria and just didn't come out with typical throat symptoms. Check it out. There is also a syndrome that is similar to PANDAS but associated with other germs instead of strep, but I'm not sure if that's as reliably testable. Worth looking into if PANDAS comes out negative because this symptom is such a classic.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Thu, Mar 02 2017, 12:22 pm
I have OCD, since elementary school. Here's what I've been told by psychologists.

Ritualistic behavior in a 4 year old is generally not yet considered outside the age appropriate realm - real OCD ritualistic behavior persists beyond age 4, and is generally considered not age appropriate at age 7. Essentially, it's a red flag, but that doesn't mean it's a problem. It means you need to keep a close eye on it. Just to make you feel better, if it's only at home and not at school, it is unlikely to be OCD. the general rule for diagnosing a problem like this is that it interferes in more than one environment in your life. It doesn't sound outside the realm of normal to me, but that's just my opinion.

If you feel that it is interfering in your kid's life or your home life you can get an evaluation now, but you may not get a diagnosis of anything now - either because everything is fine, or it's inconclusive. I always say to trust your gut - if you have a concern, get it checked out.
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amother
Lime


 

Post Thu, Mar 02 2017, 7:35 pm
OP Here. Thank you all so so much for your kind and insightful responses. I really appreciate all your help. This child did have a pretty sudden transition to a full day preschool this year, so that could be something I should explore. Re: PANDAS, I thought about that, but these behaviors are literally the only thing that he is presenting with. No tics or anything else. Ill mention it to my doctor.

I will definitely keep up the talking through about being flexible.....and try to get my husband on board. This kid is my middle child, and definitely gets the least positive and 'special' attention out of all my kids just due to circumstance....I know I have to really work on spending special time with him alone as well, that may also help him.
Thanks ladies, all your help gives me lots to work with!
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 02 2017, 7:56 pm
Not everyone has all the symptoms, for pretty much any condition. Worth looking into just in case. If not I would seek personal guidance from an expert in childhood anxiety.
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