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"We're not looking for money".
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 8:47 am
Another thread got me wondering. There's something not nice about admitting rhat we're "looking for money". In another thread the op was quoting parents who claimed that they are not the ones looking for money. It's their son based on what his friends told him he could get in the market these days. Can we be honest please? Money is VERY important and all these thousands of lakewood boys, and boys from other yeshivos who want to continue learning at least a few years if not longer, all need their bills to be paid. My relatively poor lakewood cousins ALL married into families that promised a certain amount of support. The shidduch wouldn't have happened otherwise. I realize there's something "grub" about saying "We're looking for money" but if your son isn't earning any money and you want the rent paid then yes, you're gonna need money. This is why girls from wealthier families have a distinct advantage over girls who can't offer prospective boys the winning lottery ticket.
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 8:50 am
It is "grubbe." No doubt about it. At least some people still have the decency to be ashamed.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 8:52 am
So let the boys parents support. Or let both parents split the support equally. I'm so happy that I wasn't raised with this disgusting view. Even if it is "normal."
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 9:16 am
Well. The BMG kollel system is obviously money oriented. No news here. Its not neccessarily sincere either. There are other yeshivas though like Chofetz Chaim where the boys date girls 23 and older with degrees. And the girls work long and hard hours to support, and eventually go out of town.
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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 9:20 am
In my opinion, if you're looking for money, at least be honest about it instead of pretending you're "above that."

Best thing would be to find a hard working, low maintenance girl to marry who doesn't need 4 sheitels, a bugaboo etc and who will be happy living with less as long as her husband is in kollel. But girls and guys like that are hard to come by these days...
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simcha2




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 9:46 am
I believe in "maaseh avos siman l'banim". In the Torah we see two examples of the avos getting engaged, Yitzchak and Yaakov. Yitzchak's wife is chosen for him by his father with a shaliach (Avraham and Eliezer), a shidduch situation.

Yaakov found his own wife (wives).

Both acceptable ways to get married.

What did they both have in common? In both cases the boy supported the girl. Rivka was given jewelry at the engagement and Yaakov worked 7 years for each bride.

The idea of the man demanding the wife pay for and support him didn't appear.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 10:02 am
The boys who are looking for money are, generally speaking (yes, there are always exceptions), not looking for really serious long-term learning. They are really looking to live a comfortable, maybe even luxurious lifestyle. As one mother explained to me - she wants her son to be "taken care of" (because at 25, he can't take care of himself).

I know so many girls who come from families with no money, or no support being offered - and in general, those girls married boys who stayed in learning much longer than those who were supported. How did they manage? By keeping costs down, living simply. When you want the lifestyle, your choices go along with that. It's called doing without, plain and simple.

The girls whose parents support them in a big way have a lifestyle that comes along with that, so at the point where the support dries up and the lifestyle can't give, the husband goes to work. That often happens alot sooner than the couple planned.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 10:06 am
Chayalle wrote:
The boys who are looking for money are, generally speaking (yes, there are always exceptions), not looking for really serious long-term learning. They are really looking to live a comfortable, maybe even luxurious lifestyle. As one mother explained to me - she wants her son to be "taken care of" (because at 25, he can't take care of himself).

I know so many girls who come from families with no money, or no support being offered - and in general, those girls married boys who stayed in learning much longer than those who were supported. How did they manage? By keeping costs down, living simply. When you want the lifestyle, your choices go along with that. It's called doing without, plain and simple.

The girls whose parents support them in a big way have a lifestyle that comes along with that, so at the point where the support dries up and the lifestyle can't give, the husband goes to work. That often happens alot sooner than the couple planned.


This exactly. A boy who only wants to learn as long as he can keep up a comfortable lifestyle doesn't really care that much about learning. If he cared that much, he wouldn't care about the money.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 10:13 am
Shiduchim are Bashert! At the end of the day. My cousin comes from a divorced home and her father is a BT. She married a wonderful boy from similar background. I never really heard when it came to our families shiduchim that people want money. I guess I am a nerdy pauper.
If someone says they are looking for money it really means in nice words that they don't want the shiduch. Because if I redt them to a rosh hayeshivas daughter with no money they would grab it.
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May




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 10:20 am
The girls who come with the money, also know how to spend it. The boys who get 💰 are usually ​not better off on the long run, usually worse off actually.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 10:21 am
amother wrote:
Another thread got me wondering. There's something not nice about admitting rhat we're "looking for money". In another thread the op was quoting parents who claimed that they are not the ones looking for money. It's their son based on what his friends told him he could get in the market these days. Can we be honest please? Money is VERY important and all these thousands of lakewood boys, and boys from other yeshivos who want to continue learning at least a few years if not longer, all need their bills to be paid. My relatively poor lakewood cousins ALL married into families that promised a certain amount of support. The shidduch wouldn't have happened otherwise. I realize there's something "grub" about saying "We're looking for money" but if your son isn't earning any money and you want the rent paid then yes, you're gonna need money. This is why girls from wealthier families have a distinct advantage over girls who can't offer prospective boys the winning lottery ticket.


The question is, by whom? If the girl has a lucrative job, that money can pay the bills just as well as the shvers money.

My personal observation is that so many people being supported, are also on government programs. The programs pay the bills. The support pays for the luxuries.

It has become the norm for young Kollel couples to go on vacation, whether to L.A., the Carribean, or Israel.....buy luxurious strollers, fancy clothes out of control, accessories, car leases....u name it. All this support being needed to pay the bills....

I asked a neighbor of mine, who comes from a pretty well-to-do family, why all the young women work, if they are being supported. She answered - to pay for the extras.

Nuff said.
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amother
Turquoise


 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 10:21 am
amother wrote:
I realize there's something "grub" about saying "We're looking for money"




OTOH I wish someone would get all the Lakewood Roshei Yeshiva into one room and not let them out until THEY devise a plan where boys can learn, perhaps for a shorter time, that doesnt victimize poorer girls and doesnt give a H U G E advantage to wealthy girls!

OTOH in Europe the poor girls only had an opportunity to get married when the rich married girls died in childbirth! Many poor girls became maids to the rich girls before that.

It was nauseating in Europe, and still is! Nothing changed!
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 10:28 am
and I as an accountant in Lakewood, preparing 100s of tax returns for kolel couples I can verify for what Chayelle said. The ones that manage to stay long term are the girl ready to live a simpler life style.

Even more not even the ones with degrees. Most of the degreed girls, their husbands somehow start working faster than the ones teaching or babysitting. I have my theories about that but anyone can give their opinion.

Of course Chayelle and I are the exceptions we are degreed and our Dhs are learning long term. (talking 15 plus) But both of us are WAHM which makes a huge difference.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 10:38 am
Of course it's disgusting. Support your own son!! don't marry a paycheck!! ewww! I don't get this mentality.

Also girls (and boys!) from rich families suffer tremendously from that nagging doubt. I'd be devastated to be chosen because of support. Devastated.

Quote:
OTOH in Europe the poor girls only had an opportunity to get married when the rich married girls died in childbirth


WHAT ON EARTH. They married poor boys, that's all. Stop painting "Europe" with such a wide, stereotypical brush. Most men actually WORKED pre-Shoah, except for iluim. Ha, America and their "Europe"...
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 11:18 am
I got married with the impression that if I wanted my husband to stay in learning, I would have to work to support my family. I'm not sure why this isn't the logical conclusion for most people.
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L K




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 11:19 am
I don't get something though. Even if one is willing to "do without", the basic necessities still add up to a fortune. Even if one is on programs and gets healthcare and food paid for and never buys clothing (which I don't think is normal or healthy when kids are past certain age), there are still tuitions, kids shoes, gas and car expenses, rent after all. That adds up to a ton.
Add to this the fact that women bear kids.
I don't get it how they can do it.
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juggling




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 11:33 am
I do get it. If the women have good jobs and they also live simply, it isn't different from sahm whose husbands support the families. Of course it's a ton of work for the woman, who is working full-time, husband too busy to help much at home, and presumably no money for paid help. But I can see how it could work, for someone very committed to the lifestyle.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 11:36 am
People who marry for money usually end up earning it.
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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 11:39 am
L K wrote:
I don't get something though. Even if one is willing to "do without", the basic necessities still add up to a fortune. Even if one is on programs and gets healthcare and food paid for and never buys clothing (which I don't think is normal or healthy when kids are past certain age), there are still tuitions, kids shoes, gas and car expenses, rent after all. That adds up to a ton.
Add to this the fact that women bear kids.
I don't get it how they can do it.


If you're living in Lakewood, it can be done for a good few years because the community is centered around this. There are kollel discounts for schools and some shopping, it is possible to find nice apartments for lower rent these days with the construction boom, and chances are the family will be eligible for gov't programs for childcare, health insurance etc.
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L K




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 14 2017, 11:53 am
allthingsblue wrote:
If you're living in Lakewood, it can be done for a good few years because the community is centered around this. There are kollel discounts for schools and some shopping, it is possible to find nice apartments for lower rent these days with the construction boom, and chances are the family will be eligible for gov't programs for childcare, health insurance etc.


Maybe you're right and I'm projecting my own experience, which was a unique combination of factors that made our first years hardly manageable. Also, I'm past the "first few years", so my expenses at this point are higher than those of a younger family for such categories as tuitions and other kids expenses.
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