My dilemma...another one, I know, I'm sorry

ClaRivka

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 12:56 pm

I babysit in my house.
I had at the beginning 3 steady kids, things were ok.
then one left bc the mothers schedule changed.
now I have one that is brought every day by her father and it's very uncomfortable. He does not put the baby out so that I can take her in a tznius way and he talks down to me. He is basicly unhappy bc his wife told me that for the 1st week or two she didn't know her schedule and everyday she wud call me and let me know. then the father leaves me a message on my answering machine that I should stop calling to ask abtthe schedule and basicly telling me that whenever that school has classes means that she will be bringing their daughter to me. I never went to that school, I don't have children in that school, how am I supposed to know their schedule day to day? and she told me at the beginning that she might be subbstituting for other teachers occassionally so she would let me know.
I have a life other than babysitting her children, I need to have a schedule. I have appointments I need to keep up. How can a person not understand this? and apparently when the baby is sleeping, like this morning, he brought her an hr and a half later than what they said yeterday. Should I charge them for that time even though she said she was coming or should I leave it bc I was home anyway?
I took this job bc I figured out the mathematics of it and I was making more money than my husband, but now I only have 2 kids at 6 dollars an hr and it's just not worth it.....and the kids only come for abt 20 to 24 hrs a week.
and how do I tell this man that it's too uncomfortable for me??? I usually walk on the other side of the street as men, and all of a sudden I've got this guy coming into my apt when I'm alone and handing me his baby directly. It mighth not sound so wierd to some of you but I have my own sensitivities, you know?

stem

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 1:18 pm

It's always best to be direct and honest.

"You can leave the baby in the stroller, I prefer to take her out myself." - after a few days of this, he'll get the message.

"I have to know at least by the beginning of the week what the schedule will be for the week. I'm really sorry but I have to charge for time she is supposed to be here, since I arrange my hours according to expected babysitting times."

yersp

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 1:42 pm

How old is this baby? if the baby is able to be on the floor, then tell him to please put her on the floor and you'll take her from there. Make sure that your hands are always working with something. Either hold another baby or be busy with something else. Like Stem said, he'll get the point after a couple of days. Good Luck!

luckyme

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 1:48 pm

Set up a pack-n-play type crib, high chair, stroller or even a blanket on the floor, before he shows up and then ask him to put the baby there.

Definitely speak to the mother and tell her that you need a schedule and/or what type of flexibilty you can allow her. Let her know that you arrange your schedule for the babysitting and can't afford to have time waiting when their baby is supposed to be by you.

Say it in a friendly, but matter of fact way. Ask her to call YOU to give you the schedule -so you don't have to do it and tell her if you don't hear from her in advance, you won't be expecting to babysit the next day or whatever...
Good luck!

cindy324

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 2:01 pm

Um... some parents are more comfortable handing their baby over to another adult, not just plopping them on the floor. And how does the fact that he's "modern" have anything to do with knowing the concept of tznius? Do you think he knows less about the halachos of tznius , because he's not the same sect of judaism as you? IMO, that comment was uncalled for. What is untznius about you taking the baby from him? Does he purposely keep his hands so that you would touch it while taking the baby? Somehow I doubt that. Did you bother maybe asking him nicely if he can just put the baby down?

ClaRivka

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 2:01 pm

Rosycheeks- the baby is 1 year, altho she looks much smaller. I always try to have another baby in my hands but somedays she's the first to arrive or the other one is sleeping....and I can't think of anything else I could have in my hand at that time.

Defygravity- How is it not lowering my dignity to come that close to a man I'm not related to? I don't mean like he's holding out the baby and I'm taking it from him, I mean the baby is snuggled up into his arms he expects me to take her from him like that so negia is basicly out the door on that one.

ClaRivka

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 2:07 pm

Cindy- I don't think that comment was uncalled for at all. I;m stating a fact that everyone knows, even if it isn't politically corrct to mention it. Modern people are not so "with it" with the whole tznius hashkafa.
I'm not asking him to put his child on the floor, but bringing a stoller would be smart and holding the baby out more would be considerate.

Mitzvahmom

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 2:13 pm

something I have learned, while working with non jews as a mashgicha..

Is that, people need to be told in honest respectful tone.

I am fairly certain, that if you explain that the way he is giving you his baby is a bit uncomfortable for you. Maybe have have a stroller or bouncer avail, and say. "please it would make me feel more comfortable if you could put the baby in xyz (I.e. stroller, bouncer)."

The important thing is that you not make him feel bad, or embarassed. Typically if your respectful of someone, and explain things they are respectful towards you.

But I agree with cindy, saying such comments about modern orthodox is kind of rude. Maybe he's rude to you because of how you respond to him. I know your not outright rude, but I mean... I can tell when I am around certain people they do not think I am "frum" enough because I am not ffb. While they do not outright say it, u just feel it. I know to not be rude in response, because it's their thoughts not mine.

TammyTammy

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 2:21 pm

RivkiA wrote:

Modern people are not so "with it" with the whole tznius hashkafa.

You mean someone spotted me in my bikini at the beach the other day?!

Seriously, your comment was a bit over the top. I happen to be Modern and I happen to take the laws of tznious very seriously. My hair is covered all the time, my skirts are always the proper length (yes, including when I'm sitting) and my sleeves are always properly covered. I don't wear tight clothing. I don't go around touching other men either.

And yes, I happen to know plenty of women in my neighborhood who are "more machmir" than I, who are not "modern" (and boy, do I *hate* that word in this context) and they wear clothing that is tighter than tight and they wear skirts with high slits. So don't give me this whole "modern people aren't interested in tznious" business... how about meeting some of us first and getting to know us. Or how about acknowledging that there are good and bad people in *every* group.

Quote:

I'm not asking him to put his child on the floor, but bringing a stoller would be smart and holding the baby out more would be considerate.

So ask him to hold the baby out. Or do you think that asking him to do this would be a violation of tznious too?

Tammy

ClaRivka

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 2:29 pm

I hate confrontation. The reason I have not yet asked him to put the baby down or some such is bc he has been very rude to me in the past when all I have ever been is smiles. When he gets there I want him out of my house as fast as possible and if I have to tell him the baby down first it will take longer. I know this is the wrong thing to do but when I'm put into an uncomfotrable situation I panic and taking the baby is my first reaction.
and btw mitzvahmom, I know what you mean abt being rude thing, I'm not an FFB either.
Tammy- you don't sound modern.
talking to him is a violation of tznius! being in the same room is violating tznius! of course taking the baby from is a violation of tznius too! I know it;s not halacha but I apologize for being machmir on somehting that is important to me, actually I take it back, I'm not sorry. This is the way I live.

TammyTammy

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 2:33 pm

RivkiA wrote:

Tammy- you don't sound modern.
talking to him is a violation of tznius! being in the same room is violating tznius! of course taking the baby from is a violation of tznius too! I know it;s not halacha but I apologize for being machmir on somehting that is important to me, actually I take it back, I'm not sorry. This is the way I live.

You don't have to apologize for being machmir on not taking the baby from him when it is permissible. What you *should* apologize for is expecting other people to live up to *your* chumros. So what if "modern" people are willing to take babies from people who aren't their spouses? It's permitted. It's nice that you don't, but don't say that I'm not "up on tznius" because I don't follow your chumra.

Tammy

TammyTammy

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 2:35 pm

RivkiA wrote:

Tammy- you don't sound modern.
talking to him is a violation of tznius!

And just to be clear, this is *not* a violation of tznius. You have a *business relationship* with this man. He is your customer. Do you ever have the need to say something to a stock boy in the grocery? To the mailman, or the UPS delivery guy? To a plumber or an electrician? Well, this is *no* different. Talking to him about the business relationship is *not* a violation of tznius.

Besides, if you don't tell him, how on earth is he supposed to know? Do you expect everyone to live up to your chumros?

Tammy

ClaRivka

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 2:39 pm

I am a chassidishe woman, (I know you all hate me for it now) but I try to keep away from men as much as possible. All of your examples of men I might need to talk to are completely irrelevant.
and when I accepted the job to babysit this child it was not made clear to me that a man would be bringing this child. Why do you think I work from hohme??? So that I don't have to be put into this situation....
I apologize to anyone I may have hurt by the comments I have made here today.

DefyGravity

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 2:40 pm

RivkiA wrote:

Defygravity- How is it not lowering my dignity to come that close to a man I'm not related to? I don't mean like he's holding out the baby and I'm taking it from him, I mean the baby is snuggled up into his arms he expects me to take her from him like that so negia is basicly out the door on that one.

So just do what Cindy said, and ASK him to put the baby down. I would be VERY surprised to hear that you asked him to put the baby on the floor, and he refused to do so.

I'm sure that you'll find a problem with simply asking, b/c judging from your past threads here, you like to ask questions and find fault with everyone's logical answers.

Last edited by DefyGravity on Mon, Sep 17 2007, 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

TammyTammy

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 2:43 pm

RivkiA wrote:

I don't hate you. You may be somewhat ignorant of the way "Modern orthodox" people live, but that's fine... I'm somewhat ignorant of the way you live, so I won't hold it against you.

The examples I gave are not irrelevant, on the contrary, they are highly relevant because they are exactly the types of situations where one is *permitted* to deal with members of the opposite relations.

That being said, I have a simple solution for you. It's your house, so you set the rules. Call the parents and tell them that either the mother (or another woman) brings the child over, or s/he is not welcome. Then your problems are over -- he won't bring the child and you won't have to deal with him.

Tammy