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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Pesach
Do you update your minhagim based on practicality?
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water_bear88




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 3:11 pm
fs wrote:
"ושמחת בחגך"
And it is no chumra or minhag to be happy "all" of Pesach.


Hear, hear!
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amother
Silver


 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 3:32 pm
zohar wrote:
The reason for no brown sugar is that it is processed. But the reason of not eating processed foods is not because it's more likely to be chometz, but because of the minhag/chumra of not mishing, which is when people are more stringent than the rest of the year and while they would normally rely on other frum Jews' kashrus in their cooking (and by extension rely on hechsheirim), on pesach thru are more strict and only eat things that they themselves prepared.


You are conflating two separate issues.

1) not eating processed foods

2) not eating out on Pesach

They are not the same.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 3:38 pm
cnc wrote:
Or potato chips.
Yum.
KLP potato chips are the best- they change the oil for the pesachdik batch. Compress


They change it to cottonseed oil. I can't stand them, but my DH loves them.
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agreer




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 3:40 pm
amother wrote:
You are conflating two separate issues.

1) not eating processed foods

2) not eating out on Pesach

They are not the same.


I think she equates them b/c usually, the processing is done outside the home.
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yksraya




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 4:15 pm
gp2.0 wrote:
What about lying for the sake of shalom? I used to agree with you. People should be upfront and communicate and compromise. The problem is when people are rigid and refuse to communicate or compromise. Then you both end up frustrated and angry.

This lady will gain NOTHING by discussing this with her husband. (Or father?) It will just make them both miserable. With some people, in some situations, the easiest way to preserve shalom and keep a semblance of respect is to lie.

When my grandfather asks me if I carry with the eruv in Boro park on shabbos, I say no. End of story. You don't know how much anguish it caused him - for weeks - when he thought he figured out that we do carry. The truth isn't always worth it.

That's not as much called lying as going behind the back. It's 2 differant things. And if discussing it and asking a rav won't solve it, there is more to the story. In a healthy marriage, you work as a team, not behind eachothers backs. As others have said, what will happen when he finds out?????? Is it really worth it?????
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amother
Coffee


 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 4:41 pm
Iymnok wrote:
Halachicly, if a piece of bread were to touch your spoon on pesach, you can use it to eat your soup after checking that no chometz remains in it.
It is cold and dry.
What type of floors do you have? Dirt or sand? With lenolium, wood, tiled, etc. flooring this type of chumra should stay in the world of rebbishe chumros.

Afaik this chumrah started precisely because of sand flooring/ not tiled or wood etc.


Last edited by amother on Mon, Jun 11 2018, 12:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 5:00 pm
treestump wrote:
Some people here are misusing the word chumra.

Chumra = the most stringent halachic opinion on the matter.

Like, if there are several opinions in the gemara, and a minority opinion is more stringent. If you take the stringent minority opinion upon yourself, you are being machmir, taking on a chumra - the stringent opinion.

For those asking to respect chumros - first of all, most of the things mentioned are not chumros.

Second of all, while I respect your right to practice whatever chumros you like, I don't respect the stringent customs themselves, which barely have a basis in halacha and cause untold hardship and stress to many, many families.

There's a sin of adding to the Torah for a reason. I don't know why more people aren't machmir on that.


They are minhagim and minhagim are actually not something to be taken lightly. Minhag Yisrael Torah Hi.
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 5:02 pm
amother wrote:
They are minhagim and minhagim are actually not something to be taken lightly. Minhag Yisrael Torah Hi.

No, it's halacha hu.
But there are parameters as to what constitutes a minhag. There is such thing as a minhag she's that should be avoided.
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 5:16 pm
Iymnok wrote:
No, it's halacha hu.
But there are parameters as to what constitutes a minhag. There is such thing as a minhag she's that should be avoided.


There might be one like you said as well, though Torah hi is definitely the correct expression.

I don't have that aforementioned minhag, but so what? I do have some other interesting minhagim and I'm sure you do too.
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amother
Oak


 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 5:50 pm
yksraya wrote:
About the utensils dropping debate: if it's not in agreement with your husband, you can't do it behind his back. The kids will learn it's ok to do things behind the backs of their parents, and later in life behind the backs of their husbands.

Also, this is how kids get confused, they won't know the difference between halacha and minhag/chumra if one spouse thinks of it as halacha, but the other one says chumra and doesn't keep it behind the back, they can asume that something that is halacha is also chumra and drop that for convenience purposes.

I'm of the opinion, that if you can't stick to it, discuss it with your dh before pesach. If need be speak to a rav abt it. But get on the same page as your dh. Wether you compromise for him, or he for you, no one does anything behind eachothers backs.

On the contrary, I think this is a perfect opportunity for discussion about why it's ok to drop a chumra but not a halacha.
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amother
Oak


 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 5:53 pm
treestump wrote:
Some people here are misusing the word chumra.

Chumra = the most stringent halachic opinion on the matter.

Like, if there are several opinions in the gemara, and a minority opinion is more stringent. If you take the stringent minority opinion upon yourself, you are being machmir, taking on a chumra - the stringent opinion.

For those asking to respect chumros - first of all, most of the things mentioned are not chumros.

Second of all, while I respect your right to practice whatever chumros you like, I don't respect the stringent customs themselves, which barely have a basis in halacha and cause untold hardship and stress to many, many families.

There's a sin of adding to the Torah for a reason. I don't know why more people aren't machmir on that.

No, chumra is used to mean geder. As in the halacha is _______ and inorder not to come close to being over the halacha, I will add a chumra to ensure it. What wer'e discussing here is a chumra on top of a chumra (on top of a chumra...)
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 6:01 pm
amother wrote:
There might be one like you said as well, though Torah hi is definitely the correct expression.

I don't have that aforementioned minhag, but so what? I do have some other interesting minhagim and I'm sure you do too.

Hu because it's masculine.
Torah would mean that it's handed down with no legal/halachic difference. Ktniyos is treated as Halacha. It's a minhag that now carries the status of Halacha. But since it doesn't have the same status as a real Halacha, it is easy to be lenient with it when needed.
I want to bring in hataras nedarim, but I'm not sure exactly where it fits in. If your Rav says it's a minhag shtus, then there is not even a need for hataras nedarim.
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amother
Oak


 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 6:03 pm
greenfire wrote:
first of all there are some people who don't use utensils if it falls to the floor ... you don't have to like it & you don't have to agree ...

the place I have an issue is for the husbands who are machmir on this - where the wives simply wash it behind his back [whilst laughing] ... why on earth would anybody trust any of your other kashrus ?!?!?!

at mimimum - be honest !!!


I love you ladies! and I'm with you too!
I'm simply saying what we do in my parents and inlaws home. THERE IS NO WAY my father or dfil are going to give up on this major area. You're not talking about 20-30 yr olds. You're talking about middle aged men who've set their minds that the way it was done in their fathers' home that's how it will be done in their home. (ppl tend to get like that pesach time).

Now the wife (my mother or mil) have options: they can continue arguing over this every pesach. she'll drop s/th, dh says put it aside and she says no I won't. what started out as not so difficult to follow with 4 kids, becomes harder as the marrieds move in with their spouses (who aren't always so careful) and their kids. so while they might have been ok with it to begin with, by now it's too much. so they argue. no use. argue again. no use.

OR she can do as he says and be resentful and go crazy e/ time something falls

OR, theyve learned how to make it work. and instead of trying to hide it from the kids, the kids learn an important lesson: way more important than the necessity of putting aside (or kashering) utensils that fell on teh floor. They learn that in a case of extreme chumra which is mentally taxing, you dont have to hold on to every detail so tightly. As long as you follow halacha. and no one will die from it.

this might be a bit off topic, but this is the same lesson they apply when they learn in chooson/kallah classes about missionary , lights off, under cover only. U learn to have sechel and as long as it's not assur, you can be flexible when it starts affecting your mental health or SB.
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amother
Oak


 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 6:05 pm
yksraya wrote:
That's not as much called lying as going behind the back. It's 2 differant things. And if discussing it and asking a rav won't solve it, there is more to the story. In a healthy marriage, you work as a team, not behind eachothers backs. As others have said, what will happen when he finds out?????? Is it really worth it?????
what will he find out? He'll walk into the kitchen as she's putting the spoon back it? so she says "Oh I forgot". big deal!!!

and for all I know, he knows already she doesn't follow it but he sees he can't do anything about it so he gave up. But instead of openly sanctioning it and saying that I see what you're doing, he makes believe he doesn't see.
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 6:05 pm
amother wrote:
No, chumra is used to mean geder. As in the halacha is _______ and inorder not to come close to being over the halacha, I will add a chumra to ensure it. What wer'e discussing here is a chumra on top of a chumra (on top of a chumra...)

Maybe that is how it's used in some conversations, but a chumra it the more stringent opinion. There can be many of the more stringent opinions giving you the situation of chumra on top a chumra.
A chumra is not a geder. It can be used as one though.
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 6:09 pm
Iymnok wrote:
Hu because it's masculine.


Torah isn't masculine.
But whatever...
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Seas




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 6:23 pm
I once heard a shiur about it; dropping a chumra isn't as simple as some might think. Usually it has the din of a neder, which at the very least would require hataras nedarim. Sometimes (IIRC when it's an inherited chumra), you can't even be mattir neder.

Before doing anything that has halachic implications, one should ask a rav.
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yksraya




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 6:29 pm
amother wrote:
On the contrary, I think this is a perfect opportunity for discussion about why it's ok to drop a chumra but not a halacha.

So you discuss with your kids that you drop this chumra that dad does want to keep. Next thing you know, the kid is married and decides to drop the "chumra" her dh keeps, only that "chumra" is actually a halacha and not a chumra...
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 6:32 pm
I think that some of these are neither chumros, nor minhagim, rather hanhagos. Cutting off the tip of the brisket would fall under that category for sure. Some old minhagim may fit too.
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yksraya




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 22 2017, 6:34 pm
amother wrote:
what will he find out? He'll walk into the kitchen as she's putting the spoon back it? so she says "Oh I forgot". big deal!!!

and for all I know, he knows already she doesn't follow it but he sees he can't do anything about it so he gave up. But instead of openly sanctioning it and saying that I see what you're doing, he makes believe he doesn't see.

Why would someone live a lie like that? That's just not healthy and wrong on so many levels. It's not called lying, it's called decieving. And if he does know and chooses not to mention it, I give him credit for his strength to choose sholom bayis over his chumra.
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