Non Jews and seder

amother

cornflower

Mon, Mar 20 2017, 8:42 pm

So DH is a BT with a lot of intermarried relatives. We already invited family for Seder and then someone told me that you can't have non Jews at a Seder.
Besides for the issue of cooking for them on Yom Tov (we aren't counting out servings, aren't making individual anything, and always just cook for more than needed as you never know who just shows up) is there any issue? Halachically...
I never heard of this. We were told this was ok for a regular chag (as if they want to drive technically the non Jewish spouse will or we can assume so. That's what we were told... So in some ways it's better than a not frum but Jewish spouse...).

We aren't univiting anyone FYI for sholom bayis reasons.

animeme

Mon, Mar 20 2017, 8:47 pm

There may be an issue with non-Jews eating the afikomen. There are different opinions on this. As opposed to working with what you have heard, I would ask your posted question to your rav, who can guide you on how to deal with various issues that may arise. Answers can be very individual in these scenarios.

Seas

Mon, Mar 20 2017, 10:51 pm

It's ossur to invite non Jews to any yom tov seudah, even if the cooking is done beforehand. Although there might be possibilities of being lenient in various situations, it's a question for a learned rav.

Miri7

Mon, Mar 20 2017, 10:58 pm

Seas wrote:

Yes, do ask your LOR as I know mine paskens differently - so long as you're not cooking on chat for the nonjewish guest

greenfire

Mon, Mar 20 2017, 11:02 pm

I've been told l'shaim the jew that will join the seder - you have the non-jew over too [especially if they are married] ... as far as cooking when one is cooking an entire meal and not divvying out an extra portion to cook for them alone - there is no problem because your cooking would stay the same with or without them

make sure to get a haggada that will explain things for them

Seas

Mon, Mar 20 2017, 11:03 pm

Miri7 wrote:

Yes, do ask your LOR as I know mine paskens differently - so long as you're not cooking on chat for the nonjewish guest

It's ossur according to all opinions to invite a non Jew to a yom tov seudah. This is from Chazal and everyone paskens so. The Mishna Berura even understands this to include a non religious Jew. It might be that your rav paskened differently in your specific circumstance, but no rav would simply pasken that it's always muttar.

zaq

Mon, Mar 20 2017, 11:07 pm

Seas, your charming habit of making blanket pronouncements about what is assur for your community as if it is Halacha leMoshe MiSinai for all of Am Yisrael is getting really, really old. Give it a rest. Especially since you are so often wrong.

Seas

Mon, Mar 20 2017, 11:17 pm

zaq wrote:

That's exactly why I repeated my claim, so that people know it's a blanket halacha, not community specific.

I did point out that in various extenuating circumstances there might be heteirim, but the default halacha according to every single posek is that it's ossur to invite non Jews to a yom tov seudah. If anyone has reason to invite a non Jew they should make sure to discuss it with a rav beforehand.

Oh, and I'm never wrong.

amother

Coral

Mon, Mar 20 2017, 11:29 pm

Seas wrote:

I'm going to defend Seas here, in light of the other thread where Yael said she wants to hear right wing opinions, although I'll do it anonymously because I lack courage. Seas said ask your Rav. There may be a workaround. For example, eating pork is absolutely assur. If you are starving though, and you'll die if you don't eat it, you can eat it, so Seas would say " no one would say "it's mutar to eat pork".". But I guess some Rabbonim would say "in a case of pekuach nefesh one may (sometimes) eat pork".

Back to the Seder. One get around is to only invite the Jewish spouse. "Hi Cheryl, would you and the kids like to join us for Seder??? She invites Brad, her DH, who.turns up.at the door. Hello Cheryl, come in. Hello Brad. He comes in himself. Etc etc.

But you need to talk to a Rav. And rephrase the question.

"I've invited my husband's family, including nonJews, to the Seder, not realizing it wasn't allowed. What should I do now?"

Seas

Mon, Mar 20 2017, 11:39 pm

amother wrote:

Trouble is whilst I was posting, Seas wrote this.

Don't really feel like defending you any more, Seas, unless that was meant as LOL.

It was tongue-in-cheek, which, unfortunately, doesn't translate well in writing.

WhatFor

Tue, Mar 21 2017, 12:01 am

First of all, this is something you need to ask your LOR. Specifically, ask a rabbi who has experience dealing with families where there are non-Jewish relatives.

I think at this point, your question is not whether you are permitted to invite them (which you already did, without realizing that this may be an issue) but whether you are obligated to disinvite them, having already invited them. (The analysis may be different, especially when the family dynamics and damage that can cause comes into play.)

Second...NM I'm starting a spinoff.

SixOfWands

Tue, Mar 21 2017, 12:08 am

AIUI, this has nothing to do with the seder.

Even though you can cook on yom tov, you cannot cook for a Jew. The issue then arises about having non-Jews to the meal, as you may be cooking for them. If, for example, the chag (any chag) fell on Shabbat, when you can't cook, its fine to invite gentiles.

So, CYLOR. Some are likely to say its ok, so long as you are careful to ensure that you don't cook on the chag, and use mevushal wine. Others will say no. And leniency may relate to familial relationships. (And, of course, people studying for conversion.)

tichellady

Tue, Mar 21 2017, 12:26 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Was going to say this. It's about cooking on Yomtov, so if you don't cook on yomtov and just heat your food in the way you would for Shabbat it's totally fine.

amother

Coral

Tue, Mar 21 2017, 1:01 am

tichellady wrote:

Was going to say this. It's about cooking on Yomtov, so if you don't cook on yomtov and just heat your food in the way you would for Shabbat it's totally fine.

WADR I think Seder is a little more complicated than this.

amother

Coral

Tue, Mar 21 2017, 1:09 am

tichellady wrote:

What does wadr mean? I have asked this question to more than one rabbi and this is what I was told.

With all due respect.

I thought there was also other issues relating SPECIFICALLY to Seder. However I VERY MUCH doubt that ANY Rabbi would tell OP to univite DHs relatives. Best to ask a person who is sensitive to the needs of BT families.