When did your DDs start covering their elbows?

amother

Papaya

Wed, Mar 22 2017, 7:42 pm

sky wrote:

I believe the age of covering starts when a father holds he can't daven or learn in front of a female uncovered. For some its 3 and some 7 and some otherwise.

Event though I start covering between 6-7 - If my daughter over 3 will be in the shul men's section I always cover her elbows out of respect for people who hold otherwise.

Even his own daughter??

gold21

Wed, Mar 22 2017, 7:46 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

That is extremely general no?
I mean, I am modern orthodox so I am not chassidish, but my daughter is almost 9 and she hs not started covering her elbows, unless she wants to.

Lol, yeah. Haha. Sorry. I understood from OP's post that she's trying to figure out the tznius guidelines amongst yeshivish and yeshivish-affiliated communities. Didn't mean to generalize tznius guidelines in all non-chassidish communities, but rather to address what I think I understood from OP's post.

Maybe I misunderstood what OP was asking, but I tried to read between the lines of her post to understand her question.

Lol. Funny though how it came across though. Hehe. I definitely do NOT think that ALL non-chassidim begin to cover starting at age 6-8. I don't even know if I will follow that rule with my kids, I haven't crossed that bridge yet, and would have to ask a Rav when applicable. My mom only had us cover from bas mitzvah, but maybe things were different in the 90s, I have no clue.

Edited for grammar and stuff

Last edited by gold21 on Wed, Mar 22 2017, 7:53 pm; edited 3 times in total

amother

Teal

Thu, Mar 23 2017, 8:35 am

just was wondering the same thing
im kinda waiting for my 6 year old to bring it up to me...
her class is mixed some girls are very yeshivish and have been covering elbows since they are 4 and some wont prob until they are closer to 10.
if it were up to me, I probably would would tell her by 8-9 to start wearing longer sleeves

but my daughter is very aware of what 'the big girls are doing' so I wouldn't be surprised if she tells me she wants to stop wearing short sleeves this summer.

not gonna stop her lol

amother

Oak

Thu, Mar 23 2017, 10:55 am

Quote:

I understood from OP's post that she's trying to figure out the tznius guidelines amongst yeshivish and yeshivish-affiliated communities. Didn't mean to generalize tznius guidelines in all non-chassidish communities, but rather to address what I think I understood from OP's post.

Maybe I misunderstood what OP was asking, but I tried to read between the lines of her post to understand her question.

Hi, it's the OP. I'm not trying to figure out the tznius guidelines amongst yeshivish and yeshivish-affiliated communities. I'm just trying to figure out what to do with my own kid, who I am raising a little differently than how I was brought up. While I definitely wouldn't call myself a BT in the sense it's typically used, I did grow up a bit more modern than I am now, as I said, and I wore pants and t-shirts until I was 18 years old. I am anxious about saying and doing the right thing because I have no experience from my own life to help with this.

Based on the poll responses I'm worried that I'm late to the game with my DD. I would very greatly appreciate advice about how to make sure she's not angry and resentful in a couple of months when the temp is over 100 degrees!

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Mar 23 2017, 3:22 pm

Seas wrote:

Full tznius rules from 3 (but sometimes lenient up until the age of 5).

This is not true all around. Again, it depends which community you are from and what you learn and what your rabbanim hold etc.

I never learned that there was a specific age where a girl had to start covering her elbows. I learned that one is allowed to have a certain amount of the elbow not be covered even.

So, this just varies from community to community and even family to family (I dont keep the same as my sister as my mother etc)

amother

Papaya

Thu, Mar 23 2017, 5:15 pm

amother wrote:

I'm so surprised at all the responses. My daughter is 8 years old in a mainstream flatbush school and most of her friends do not cover their elbows or knees.

I think a lot of chassidish or very frum litvish people replied because in my jpf community many girls don't take on full tznius until bat mitzvah or close to it.

amother

Brown

Thu, Mar 23 2017, 6:39 pm

amother wrote:

Quote:

Just curious why you are assuming she will be angry or resentful. Do you have any real reason to think she won't be agreeable to this? After all, she knows you wear long sleeves. She must know it will be expected of her at some point. Is she angry and resentful about eating only kosher food or about keeping Shabbos. There is no reason to turn this into an overly emotional issue or to treat it much differently than any other mitzvah.

That being said, I think you need to ask around other mothers of her friends and see what they are doing. If a lot of her friends are covering their elbows it is a very different question than if she is the only one.

sky

Thu, Mar 23 2017, 7:10 pm

amother wrote:

Even his own daughter??

I've understood it more like if someone is in public and has to daven they shouldn't do so facing females over a specific age with elbows uncovered. (the age varies by the community). So that is the age used to determine when to dress daughters tzinius.
I don't know how other people hold, in our family no. (buy my DH still won't say brachos facing me unless a minimum number of parts are covered, including my hair)

amother

Papaya

Thu, Mar 23 2017, 9:01 pm

sky wrote:

Ok but a mans relationship with his wife is very different from that with his daughter. An uncovered wife could be distracting I would hope a daughter wouldn't be.

gold21

Thu, Mar 23 2017, 9:11 pm

amother wrote:

Quote:

Well, if you want to look at halacha in its simplest form, the rule is age 12 for all halachos including tznius.

Beyond that, it's kinda hard to answer without knowing what "type" you are- and that important detail has not been made clear.

amother

Orchid

Thu, Mar 23 2017, 9:41 pm

Quote:

I think a lot of chassidish or very frum litvish people replied because in my jpf community many girls don't take on full tznius until bat mitzvah or close to it.

I don't think the poll results necessarily mean this. I live in a "just plain frum" community where many women don't cover their elbows and knees well - sadly this has become the new norm. We live in a society nowadays where everyone is scared to pressure anyone to do anything, so the concept of chinuch in tznius to young girls, I believe has fallen to the wayside.

That being said I started my daughter this year at age 5. We hold by age 6 she needs to be fully tznius but her birthday is in the summer and I thought it would just be easier to continue the long sleeves and long skirts into the summer rather than going back to s/s (it is rather warm already where we live) and then back to l/s again.

I believe she's 1 of 3 in her grade that does not wear short sleeves