Yeshivish ppl-have question about bencher selection

amother

Green

Wed, Mar 22 2017, 10:10 pm

Hello yeshivish mothers,
We are picking benchers for my dd's wedding. We found a lovely bencher but on top of some of the pages is an illustration of a family making kiddush. The drawing of the mother has the mother wearing a beautiful hair covering and perfectly tzanua dress.
My dd is reluctant to use this as her wedding bencher because she is concerned that when she is married, her yeshivish guests will not approve of the bencher.

I am not yeshivish, but I would like to know if anyone can tell me if she is making this up or if there is a reason to be concerned.

TIA

amother

Green

Wed, Mar 22 2017, 11:03 pm

Thanks for the responses. She and soon to be dsil have agreed that he will show the illustration to either his yeshivish chosson teacher or his rav and if they can't see anything wrong with it then they will go for it. They like the bencher but since they are new to the yeshivish world, they don't want to do anything to offend anyone. I am hopeful that no one will be offended and we can proceed with the ordering.

doctorima

Wed, Mar 22 2017, 11:58 pm

I don't know where you live and where the wedding will be held, and what type of crowd will be there. As somebody who considers myself yeshivish, I don't think there's a concern that anybody will be offended by it, as there's nothing halachically problematic with it.

That said, certainly in my Flatbush circles it would seem a little strange if I saw it. If it makes them uncomfortable, certainly don't push them to do it, as I fully understand where they're coming from, and if they decide they like it and are okay with using it, there's no need to try to dissuade them.

Iymnok

Thu, Mar 23 2017, 4:45 am

If it's a depiction of a family kiddush scene at the top of the page, it's tiny. I see no problem with it. I also don't take benchers from every simcha I go to.
If she is newly yeshivish, she should clarify for herself what her stance is, not her perceived notion of what others like. I think it bothers way less people than she thinks. And I don't think they will think any less of her for her choice.

PinkFridge

Thu, Mar 23 2017, 8:56 am

About 15 years ago there was a beautiful bencher that was in vogue, the Naaleh bencher with gorgeous pictures. Not yeshivish but I loved it so much (my son brought home a few) I got one for Pesach. (That got left behind by mistake, but I digress.)
This particular bencher would not be in the running for your chasuna. I don't know what your bencher's like but it sounds like it might be a little funky. Not a bad thing, but might make someone feel uncomfortable.

amother

Green

Thu, Mar 23 2017, 10:41 am

They are newly yeshivish. The wedding crowd other than the mesader kiddushin is most definitely not. I *think* she is concerned that when they use the bencher in their home, some future yeshivish guest might be uncomfortable. This is from a tiny scene on top of some of the pages of a drawing of a family where the Abba is making kiddush and the fully tznanua Ima is standing near him.

It is such a pretty bencher which they loved too before noticing this scene. It is also has a very nice English side which is critical as many of the guests will not be frum.

cozyblanket

Thu, Mar 23 2017, 9:56 pm

amother wrote:

If she and he chassan both don't want it, then find something else. My parents didn't agree with everything DH and I wanted, but I appreciated their support and wanting to please us. We worked hard to please them too. Everyone should look back with only positive memories! Mazel tov!

amother

Green

Thu, Mar 23 2017, 10:12 pm

Don't worry everyone. We are not forcing this issue. It is no big deal. I just wanted to know if this is a real yeshivish concept or not. They are having a separate seating wedding-which I know is a yeshivish concept-even though that is not the preference of any of the parents.
They are having things their way.

Unless they choose to show it to some very yeshivish people who give their blessing, we will choose something else.

iluvy

Thu, Mar 23 2017, 10:29 pm

You say they are new to the yeshivish world. They will very quickly become swamped, drained and cynical unless they decide right now, at the beginning of their marriage, to worry as little as possible about what other people think is appropriate. Let them absolutely adopt the beautiful yeshivishe derech of making Torah the center of their lives and worrying about details in halacha. But this meta-worrying about something that they themselves do not think is inappropriate is a step towards madness. Let them ask a rav, be solid in their own derech, and everyone will respect them.

amother

Forestgreen

Thu, Mar 23 2017, 10:50 pm

There are so many options, don't get this one. Any pic of a woman will immediately be controversial. The only reason I would say to get it is if she says she is in love with it or it is the cheapest option.

At my wedding, the bencher people tried to convince me to get only white because that's what yeshivish people do. I hate white. I ended up getting a pretty gold toned one with illustrations(no people). You are never going to make everyone happy, but that one seems like it is more than a little non standard.

In terms of wanting to fit into a culture you are new to, these type of external things do brand you as "oh, are you BT?" It is stupid, it is dumb, it is superficial, it is wrong, but it IS how things go in these circles. Now, if she doesn't care if people think she is BT or FTB, fine, but if she is trying to integrate she should not do this.

DrMom

Fri, Mar 24 2017, 7:07 am

PinkFridge wrote:

I love that bencher.

Pretty sad that a picture of a family (including -- gasp -- a mother!) saying kiddush is controversial.

amother

Green

Fri, Mar 24 2017, 9:43 am

I also feel that it is sad that this even had to be a question.
Believe me, if I wasn't on imamother I wouldn't even know that it would be a question for any sect.
I love the bencher full of actual photos and use that one often.
This is not going to be a battle, I just wanted to know what the yeshivish imamothers thought.

librarygirl

Fri, Mar 24 2017, 9:57 am

I can't believe the answers I'm reading. I consider myself yeshivish (ok, maybe not Lakewood yeshivish) and it wouldn't occur to me that this is a problem. Even the frum magazines allow illustrations, I believe, just not photos.

Chayalle

Fri, Mar 24 2017, 10:09 am

librarygirl wrote:

I'm middle of the road lakewood yeshivish and I have never paid attention to any bentcher at a wedding besides for the purpose for which it is there - to bentch - and to maybe comment on its being pretty. I don't even relate to the concept that it's possible for a bentcher to be offensive. Maybe I'm not yeshivish enough?

But whatever - I would say to the OP - your DD and her chassan will B"EH grow into themselves. Perhaps now they are at a sensitive stage, so maybe they should just choose something floral, if it helps them feel more confident. One day they may look back at this and laugh at themselves and say, could you imagine, back then we thought bentchers were a big deal?! Ha!

amother

Firebrick

Fri, Mar 24 2017, 10:12 am

iluvy wrote:

This this this!!

I live in Lakewood (and am not really too yeshivish by Lakewood standards Wink

) and this question is odd to me. Who cares if some hypothetical guests will have a problem with an illustration in their bentchers? I wouldn't think twice (or even once) about it if I saw something like that in someone's home. Sounds like a lovely bentcher.

If their guests take offense from that, then those guests have some serious problems.

If she plain doesn't like it, don't take them, but she absolutely must think for herself and not base her decisions on the potential reactions of potential stupid guests.