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What sick chinuch is this?
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rainbow dash




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 7:30 am
There is now going around a video clip of a protest in meah sharim were a lady wonders by mistake into the middle of it and gets beaten up and kicked by adults and children. The police had to save her.

Do these kids go home and get a clap on the back for doing a good job of beating up a siska from their parents or do the parents have no idea what they are doing?

Exploding anger Exploding anger Exploding anger Exploding anger Exploding anger Exploding anger Exploding anger
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rainbow dash




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 7:34 am
http://www.jerusalemonline.com.....27534
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amother
Papaya


 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 7:36 am
At least she was saved by police. The media is very left and there may or may not be propaganda. I am not watching it because it will break my heart. But let's try not to speak bad about Jews thank you.
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rainbow dash




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 7:43 am
amother wrote:
At least she was saved by police. The media is very left and there may or may not be propaganda. I am not watching it because it will break my heart. But let's try not to speak bad about Jews thank you.


I agree. But who is teaching these kids thats its ok to kick women?
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staten islander




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 8:17 am
It breaks my heart too,how can frum Jews act that way? We need to condemn such behavior. If our personal Rabbeim and gedolim don't speak out against it,maybe it's time to "vote with our feet"
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 8:32 am
amother wrote:
At least she was saved by police. The media is very left and there may or may not be propaganda. I am not watching it because it will break my heart. But let's try not to speak bad about Jews thank you.


At some point people lose their status as jews. I think these animals are waaaay past that point.
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yo'ma




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 8:45 am
staten islander wrote:
It breaks my heart too,how can "frum" Jews act that way? We need to condemn such behavior. If our personal Rabbeim and gedolim don't speak out against it,maybe it's time to "vote with our feet"

I edited your post in the bolded.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 8:48 am
I might be a bit off topic but when I used to live in Williamsburg and I carried on shabbes (there is an eiruv but some don't keep to it) there were guys on the street WITH THEIR KIDS yelling at me "shikse" . Once I was even blocked by a whole group of guys.
I once opened up my mouth and screamed "is this the chinuch u wanna give to ur kids? How about explaining them that there are all kind of people and some keep different ways than others?"
But who am I to correct the world

All I can do is make sure my children get the right education and there were many times I had to explain them that some yiden are not like us.
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 9:09 am
amother wrote:
At some point people lose their status as jews. I think these animals are waaaay past that point.


No Jew ever loses their status as Jew. Even the biggest sinner can repent. I did not watch the video. In a way a feel sorry for the misguided people. They are indoctrinated and led astray by their leaders. They are brainwashed. May Hashem have mercy on them and open their hearts to do teshuvah
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 9:23 am
amother wrote:
At some point people lose their status as jews. I think these animals are waaaay past that point.


That's THEIR argument. She was wearing pants; its OK to call her a non-Jew, and attack her.

No one loses their status as Jews. Not all Jews are good people, however they dress.
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Seas




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 9:59 am
FTR what they did is totally wrong.

That said, there's a very good chance the incident didn't start when the when the clip does. What if she'd gone on a rampage beforehand, kicking and punching protesters? While it doesn't excuse their behavior, it certainly puts it into a different perspective.

My point is you can't watch a clip showing only a few seconds of something, without any context, and then pass judgement.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 10:05 am
I saw the clip and was horrified.

I just wonder, did she go there by mistake, or on purpose? At one point, she seems to head into the crowd of men, rather than stay on the sidewalk...though it's hard to see, the clip has no context.

Either way, their actions are abhorrent...but if she went there on purpose, her actions are stupid.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 10:07 am
amother wrote:
At some point people lose their status as jews. I think these animals are waaaay past that point.


Yitamu Chataim Min Haaretz.

Chataim, V'lo Chotim.

As taught to us by Bruriah, Eshes Rebbi Meir.

We are not allowed to say Yimach Shmo after the name of a Jew, because he can do Teshuva. So can his descendants (and they are Jewish).

They may lose their status as people...but not as Jews.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 10:07 am
amother wrote:
No Jew ever loses their status as Jew. Even the biggest sinner can repent. I did not watch the video. In a way a feel sorry for the misguided people. They are indoctrinated and led astray by their leaders. They are brainwashed. May Hashem have mercy on them and open their hearts to do teshuvah



Some sinners don't repent. The torah says that a boy who is a Ben Sorer Umorer is stoned to death because we accept the fact that he will not change and his life will only cause pain for others. It's obviously not my place to say these animals should be condemned to death. But realistically speaking, we all know that it is highly unlikely they will change. They live isolated in cult like conditions and don't have access to logic and reason.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 10:12 am
Chayalle wrote:
I saw the clip and was horrified.

I just wonder, did she go there by mistake, or on purpose? At one point, she seems to head into the crowd of men, rather than stay on the sidewalk...though it's hard to see, the clip has no context.

Either way, their actions are abhorrent...but if she went there on purpose, her actions are stupid.



We have to condemn this the way we expect moderate muslims to condemn terror attacks. To me, it looked like she walked one way, got attacked, panicked and blundered into another group. She must have been terrified - I would be.

Which part of "don't touch a woman who is not your first-degree relative" didn't resonate in their chinuch? The hypocrisy of this shocks me. You don't like that she's wearing pants, so you can hit and kick her? In order to do that, you have to touch her! And since when do we have the right to enforce an interpretation of Halacha with violence, in the absence of a Sanhedrin?

I say this is a yeshivishe Lakewood woman with a Bais Yaakov education and strong Litvish yichus on both sides. This is beyond the pale and is absolutely wrong, even *if* she went into the crowd deliberately (which doesn't look like it to me).
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 10:32 am
debsey wrote:
We have to condemn this the way we expect moderate muslims to condemn terror attacks. To me, it looked like she walked one way, got attacked, panicked and blundered into another group. She must have been terrified - I would be.

Which part of "don't touch a woman who is not your first-degree relative" didn't resonate in their chinuch? The hypocrisy of this shocks me. You don't like that she's wearing pants, so you can hit and kick her? In order to do that, you have to touch her! And since when do we have the right to enforce an interpretation of Halacha with violence, in the absence of a Sanhedrin?

I say this is a yeshivishe Lakewood woman with a Bais Yaakov education and strong Litvish yichus on both sides. This is beyond the pale and is absolutely wrong, even *if* she went into the crowd deliberately (which doesn't look like it to me).


Oh, I totally agree. It's horrible! I don't get the sick chinuch these people have been getting. To treat another human being that way, let alone a fellow Jew! And what happened to Shomer Negiah, and every other value they were ever taught (or weren't they)?
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 10:38 am
rainbow dash wrote:
I agree. But who is teaching these kids thats its ok to kick women?

I doubt anyone is teaching them that.

The problem is that it's not enough to not actively teach certain bad behaviors. You have to actively teach kids *not* to do those things.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 10:42 am
I doubt this was about her clothing. Or - not directly about her clothing.

Yes, women who go into certain neighborhoods in jeans will get yelled at, maybe even spit at, but this is beyond that.

It was a protest against enlisting hareidi men in the IDF. An illegal protest, where speakers compared the IDF to the Nazis. So - already an extremist environment, a crowd whipped up into anti-Zionist hate, and then suddenly this woman is there looking just like how "the Zionists" look.

The kids were only taking all the messages they had just been fed to their logical conclusion.

So - it was her clothes, but it was the fact that her clothes marked her as "other" more than any specific code of modesty.
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MrsDash




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 11:11 am
These people need a job or a hobby. Too much time on their hands.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2017, 11:13 am
MrsDash wrote:
These people need a job or a hobby. Too much time on their hands.


There are plenty of Chareidi men in Israel who are learning in Yeshivos and Batei Midrashim, who would never stoop to such horrible behavior.

These men need direction from their leaders to stop this behavior and go back to whatever it is they are supposed to be doing.
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