MYOB/Husky boy/ S/O

33055

Tue, Apr 04 2017, 1:12 pm

Frum Jews are 7 times more likely to be obese than the general population which is suffering from an obesity epidemic to begin with. A big part of the problem is a lack of nutritional education.

The stuff that was posted on those two threads are cringe worthy, and then they were liked. Don't get your information from posters unless they can back it up. A post is not true because it is liked. There is a crowd mentality at play here.

OP in the MYOB thread was attacked for not being a loving bubby. Posters were saying that she needs therapy to learn how to be a bubby. This was because she expressed a concern for her grandchild. They sounded unloving.

BTW on the mil thread, she similarly expressed concern about dil. Posters attacked her for pages and she was diagnosed with a myriad of mental syndromes. It was insane. The posters attacking sounded foolish.

The converse of a post is not true either. Because the poster (me) was personally attacked does not mean the poster (me) is wrong. I got involved because the discussion was foolish, and I didn't like that they were attacking OP on the MYOB thread.

amother

Mauve

Tue, Apr 04 2017, 1:40 pm

Squishy wrote:

[u]

I didn't read all of the other thread, but without any hard data here's my 2 cents:
I don't think Frum people are 7x more likely to be obese than the general population is because of nutritional education. So non frum people took a class about nutrition in high school? Big deal. I think everyone know that being overweight is unhealthy. This is not a secret. I think the single biggest reason why frum people are fat is because there are so many days that revolve around food. We sit around shabbos all day eating big meals. Pesach, Sukkos, Shevuos, Rosh Hashana, Chanakah Parties, Sheva Brochos....it just doesn't stop. Unfortunately, because of the reason I described, the statistic isn't likely to change.

octopus

Tue, Apr 04 2017, 1:49 pm

amother wrote:

I don't think people are overweight because there are more holidays. I think for children, they have such long school days, are forced to eat school lunches in many of the schools (a lot of yeshivas have a no home lunch policy, or parents opt to pay for school lunches, ) and basically lead sedentary lifestyles. Teachers give out candy, sodas, and donuts left and right. And simchas torah and purim I hear so many ADULTS say that "this is for the kids! this is their holiday" as they stuff them with knosh. I think it's ridiculous for adults to say that about any holiday.

33055

Tue, Apr 04 2017, 1:52 pm

amother wrote:

I didn't have a class in nutrition. I had yearly classes in nutrition and continue to read as the guidelines change. My kids had zero classes in nutrition. Education is a big deal.

It is hard for hosts to offer healthy alternatives if they aren't educated. And it is hard to run a healthy home without education. I think on the husky boy thread a poster stated that you couldn't gain weight from certain fattening foods. The claim was simply not true as are a huge percent of information offered as truth on this site.

You can have tasty healthy alternatives at every occasion you mention including shabbos parties.

cnc

Tue, Apr 04 2017, 1:59 pm

amother wrote:

I really think this is it.
The statistics can change for those that want to change . My family has changed their eating habits drastically. But I definitely think that this is the reason. Eating donuts, latkes and fried foods for eight days. Eating heavy fish and meat meals for eight days with child hamoed in between. Don't forget the white challa bh each meal. Two days of stuffing yourself with cheesecake for shavous etc. Eating liver and gala every Shabbos. I know people that have done weight loss surgery at NYU and the surgeons claims that most of their patients come from a certain community. (Possibly just because logistically that's who they would service, but I do think those statistics are telling. )I can list thirty- forty people offhand that I know that did surgery. Do you think it's so common in other communities?

33055

Tue, Apr 04 2017, 2:04 pm

octopus wrote:

I see food being used to sooth kids. Once a car is in motion, the kids are given food. I see this all the time carpooling. Kids are conditioned to eat even on ten minute car rides.

The Shabbos parties are not necessary with huge bags of nosh. There is no reason fresh fruit can't be offered instead of junk.

Parents can control the nosh consumed by their kids by making sure they eat first and making sure the kids know it is junk.

Schools can serve healthy lunches, but until they do, parents can make sure there is healthy food at home. Parents can also ask for healthy treats in school. I supplied the Rebbe with bags of popcorn for the boys.

cnc

Tue, Apr 04 2017, 2:09 pm

Squishy wrote:

Great points. I was thrilled that my kids' schools have a no Shehakol nosh policy and then very NOT thrilled when my son started coming home with plenty of Shehakol nosh as rewards.

My children's schools serve pretty healthy lunches.
It drives me crazy that my son's rebbe tells them that they can ALL bring Shabbos party to distribute EVERY week. Seriously, you think these boys need 25 sugary noshes every week??? What's wrong with the old fashioned method of two children bringing in something on a rotation?

Fox

Tue, Apr 04 2017, 2:24 pm

Squishy wrote:

I am posting regarding frum Jews and obesity and the lack of education - in this case nutritional education.

The problem is that the relationship between nutrition and obesity is not simply a matter of "if people knew better they would do better." There are too many things we don't know and too many variables.

We know, for example, that metabolic disorders are on the increase throughout the world. At first glance, we can easily blame the increase in Type 2 diabetes on Western-style high-fat diet. But that doesn't explain the exponential increase in rural China, where people still eat traditional diets. Diabetes in Rural China

And what is the relationship with Type 1 diabetes, which has increased by 21 percent in recent years? JDRF Does the auto-immune system play a role not just in Type 1 diabetes but in Type 2, as well?

What is the relationship between metabolic disorders and sleep? There is a significant body of research that suggests that sleep disorders and bad sleep hygiene can be just as important as nutrition in preventing obesity and similar metabolic disorders. Metabolic Consequences of Sleep Disorders

Or the gut-brain connection that controls satiation? Brain Regulation of Appetite

When I was growing up, peptic ulcers were a common health problem. They were the "businessman's complaint," and medical professionals agreed that they were caused by stress, spicy food, and alcohol. "Just reduce your stress and change your diet," was the advice given to millions of people.

Long story short, it was determined that the vast majority of peptic ulcers were caused by a particular bacteria. Although the original medical researchers who discovered this had their careers destroyed because "everyone" knew that ulcers were caused by stress and bad diet.

Whoops!

Obesity is not okay. It is entirely correct to remind people of its dangers. It is entirely correct to remind people that good food choices are important. It is entirely correct to remind people that exercise does more than just burn calories. It is entirely correct to remind people that perfect doesn't have to be the enemy of good -- every pound you lose takes four pounds of pressure off your knees.

But it is dangerous to be arrogant about what we think we know. It is factually inaccurate to pretend that the facts are in and the matter is settled. Real science acknowledges the link between nutrition and obesity, but it's still very unclear which factors are causes, which are side effects, and which are simply coincidences.

By all means, teach people what we know about nutrition. But pretending that we know more about obesity than we really do is the equivalent of lying.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Apr 04 2017, 2:44 pm

This is a really touchy subject for me. My mom struggled with her weight all of her life. She was addicted to diet pills for a while. She was bulimic. She went on every crazy diet out there. She exercised. She binged. She HATED herself, and it broke my heart. I only have ONE picture of her, from the neck up, because she couldn't stand how she looked. When my mom died, she weighed over 300 pounds, and was in severe pain.

It turns out she had https://rarediseases.org/rare-.....ease/ Dercum's Disease. She had such a bad case, that her doctors asked if they could do an autopsy on her for medical research, and she consented.

At her autopsy, they found that over HALF her weight was lipomas. Lipomas do not respond to diet, because they have a protective capsule around them. They had invaded her liver, her lungs, and every other organ in her body, as well as being in muscle tissue and under her skin. Without the lipomas, she would have been a healthy weight all along.

It was not until a year before her death that she finally got a proper diagnosis. Up until then, she just got lectured by doctors about "being too fat", and dismissed as a lazy bum. I think about all the years of self hatred she went through, all the starvation and misery, for nothing. Her weight controlled her life, and the way she thought about her self every single day. All because of a missed diagnosis.

This is why I always assume a medical problem is causing weight issues, before I jump to thinking "put down the fork and go for a walk."

33055

Tue, Apr 04 2017, 3:10 pm

Fox wrote:

Squishy wrote:

Please note that I advocate continuing education as guidelines change.

The basic stuff I learned in elementary school are as true as they were in the 60s. Diet and exercise add years to your life. While they had 7 food groups then and 5 today, being overweight leads to diabetes and heart attacks. This is from my childhood memory.

If someone has metabolic syndrome and their dr advises them to diet and exercise, this is still the best advice regardless of what is going on in China.

amother

Gray

Tue, Apr 04 2017, 3:14 pm

Squishy wrote:

Actually, dieting causes obesity in many people. Yo-yo dieting is the worst thing you can do for your health.

Healthy eating and exercise is the best thing you can do for your health.

Fox

Tue, Apr 04 2017, 3:15 pm

A number of posters have criticized the practices of schools and individuals when it comes to using high-sugar, high-fat foods to elicit certain emotional or behavioral responses from children.

It is all well and good to disapprove of this practice, but again, let's look at the science behind the behavior:

Fatty acid–induced gut-brain signaling attenuates neural and behavioral effects of sad emotion in humans

To sum up, humans eat for comfort not because they lack discipline, but because of biology. It works! If you are feeling stressed, sad, angry, etc., you will feel better if you have a brownie. And, no, not because Bubby force-fed you every time you cried as a toddler. Because of the effects of fatty acids in the intestines.

So does that mean that we should throw our hands up and start distributing the nosh?

Of course not.

But it means that anyone who claims these are just "habits" is either woefully uninformed or lying.

So instead of simply criticizing the practice, maybe we should be asking when and why kids need (or we feel they need!) mood enhancement. Are there elements of contemporary life that essentially require kids (and adults) to be regularly sedated through fatty acids or medication? If so, what are those conditions and can we ameliorate them in any way?

Simply criticizing schools and teachers for the existence of biological facts is like kvetching that it's too darned bright when the sun comes up every morning.

33055

Tue, Apr 04 2017, 3:19 pm

amother wrote:

Well done Fox!

I have two friends, sisters. One sister is a rail. The other is noticeably overweight. Guess who eats more? The rail-thin sister. By a far shot.

Additionally, if you are going to harp about the effects of obesity, you may want to point out that dieting INCREASES obesity (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25608460)

Blaming people for their weight is like blaming them for their metabolism, or their thyroid function. However, we should most certainly hold accountable people for making consistent unhealthy food choices, not exercising, or drinking too many calorie-heavy liquids. But that's whether or not it leads to losing weight.

The conclusion of your study:

Dieting to lose weight can contribute to the risk of future obesity and weight gain. Losing weight requires a commitment to change one's lifestyle and a sustained effort to maintain a healthy diet and engage in physical activity.

This totally supports what I have been saying. Eat a healthy diet and engage in physical activity.