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water_bear88




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 3:25 pm
Fox wrote:
A number of posters have criticized the practices of schools and individuals when it comes to using high-sugar, high-fat foods to elicit certain emotional or behavioral responses from children.

It is all well and good to disapprove of this practice, but again, let's look at the science behind the behavior:

Fatty acid–induced gut-brain signaling attenuates neural and behavioral effects of sad emotion in humans

To sum up, humans eat for comfort not because they lack discipline, but because of biology. It works! If you are feeling stressed, sad, angry, etc., you will feel better if you have a brownie. And, no, not because Bubby force-fed you every time you cried as a toddler. Because of the effects of fatty acids in the intestines.

So does that mean that we should throw our hands up and start distributing the nosh?

Of course not.

But it means that anyone who claims these are just "habits" is either woefully uninformed or lying.

So instead of simply criticizing the practice, maybe we should be asking when and why kids need (or we feel they need!) mood enhancement. Are there elements of contemporary life that essentially require kids (and adults) to be regularly sedated through fatty acids or medication? If so, what are those conditions and can we ameliorate them in any way?

Simply criticizing schools and teachers for the existence of biological facts is like kvetching that it's too darned bright when the sun comes up every morning.


Fox, I think the school aspect is what's very cultural here. I have fond memories of many of my elementary-school teachers, but I only recall the Judaics-studies teachers regularly incentivizing us with food (though even then, it wasn't all). So either Torah is inherently more boring than arithmetic or history, I find it hard to attribute this primarily to biology.

(I said I blame teachers more than parents because I can feel for a parent who themselves have a problem with junk food, and have trouble not passing that on to their kids. Teachers with a food problem need to find a way to leave it at home.)
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petiteruchy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 3:29 pm
I'm guessing op is referring to my posts, at least in part. For the record, I'm a vegetarian, was vegan for many years, and have a slim, athletic build. I weigh the same amount I have weighed since I was 18 and I'm now mid 30s. Our family is very active and my kids swim, run races, bike every day and do dance/gymnastics etc. We're very health conscious and none of us are heavy.

I used to be very snooty about my eating habits and consistent weight. Partly because my mother was always telling me to stop eating and I had a lot of resentment about it. I have a fast metabolism and ate a ton as a kid and teen. And I watched her struggle with her weight ( even though she's naturally slim) and get on my sister's case ( who isn't). I watched the absolute destruction caused by my grandmother's fat phobia act out on my aunt who then acted on her two children... Healthy normal people now destroyed by anorexia.

Then I started learning about the socioeconomic and environmental forces behind the so called obesity epidemic, and the fact that we've actually never had a time in human history when so many people had access to sufficient calories. Food scarcity has been an ongoing dilemma since the very beginning and we actually don't know exactly how this works.

I also met some very strong and intelligent people who were resisting the idea that they were somehow deficient for being fat. The amount of fat shaming and fat hate out there, well, if were something truly easy to fix, or even something we had as much control over as we think, no one would choose this.

These lessons and a few others have really taught me that a) my appearance and weight are almost entirely genetic and not because I have more self control or moral fibre, b) everyone needs healthy food in their lives but what that actually looks like is quite variable and c) people who equate weight with healthy, fresh food, and with healthy bodies have the wrong end of the stick.

Everyone deserves to eat fresh, healthy delicious food. Every child deserves to have their body's signals listened to and respected. I don't know a single woman out there who doesn't carry some baggage about her weight or shape and I don't understand how people don't see the connection between these destructive messages and that destructive mindset.
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EmpireState




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 3:40 pm
[quote="Squishy"]I see food being used to sooth kids. Once a car is in motion, the kids are given food. I see this all the time carpooling. Kids are conditioned to eat even on ten minute car rides.

This!
But it's not just religious kids. When DD was little, she was in a town soccer league. Every week a different parent had to be "snack person" for the entire team. Don't get me started on why each parent couldn't just bring snack for his/her own kid. I would always be so happy when a parent brought a non kosher snack so I would have so no to my DD (I'm cringing thinking of all the grimy hands going into an open donut box). When it was my turn, I brought in individual bags of sliced apples. The looks that I got from the other parents!
Also the availability of junk food wherever you go... Staples, etc....
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 3:57 pm
Squishy wrote:
Please note that I advocate continuing education as guidelines change.

The basic stuff I learned in elementary school are as true as they were in the 60s. Diet and exercise add years to your life. While they had 7 food groups then and 5 today, being overweight leads to diabetes and heart attacks. This is from my childhood memory.

If someone has metabolic syndrome and their dr advises them to diet and exercise, this is still the best advice regardless of what is going on in China.


Guidelines for what? How to alter the biochemistry of your intestines so that your brain knows when your body has had enough to eat?

Yes, we all agree that obesity is a significant risk factor for many life-threatening diseases and is furthermore a public nuisance, particularly when leggings and crop tops are involved.

But you're ignoring scads of science that points to the fact that improving diet, in particular, is not simply a matter of education and willpower.

Giovanni Cizza, MD, PhD, and Kristina I. Rother, MD, from the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases, Bethesda, Maryland, wrote critically on this subject that the field of research on the mind-body connection "has suffered from a Cartesian top-down approach, in which the brain or mind is presumed to influence the body." NIH -- Are We What We Eat?

There's no question that we should all do whatever we can to eat healthfully, eat mindfully, and exercise.

However, when doctors tell us to diet and exercise, they are acting precisely like doctors in 1970 who told peptic ulcer sufferers to reduce stress and avoid spicy foods. They're doing the best they can with the available information. There's no question that peptic ulcers are less painful if you avoid spicy foods and it's also true that excessive stress can trigger an acute episode.

But that advice turned out to be a case of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Present the symptoms of peptic ulcers today, and you'll be given an antibiotic, which in the vast majority of cases will cure the problem. Your body will then be able to tolerate spicy foods and excessive stress won't cause you to double over in gastric pain.

Eventually, researchers will likely figure out why some people's bodies make them or allow them to overeat. They'll then devise whatever treatments allow people to implement better nutritional choices and exercise. And then the folks who've been braying about what awful diets people have will say, "Whoops, my bad!" and go along their merry ways, never taking the slightest responsibility for their outrageous oversimplifications.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 4:09 pm
water_bear88 wrote:
Fox, I think the school aspect is what's very cultural here. I have fond memories of many of my elementary-school teachers, but I only recall the Judaics-studies teachers regularly incentivizing us with food (though even then, it wasn't all). So either Torah is inherently more boring than arithmetic or history, I find it hard to attribute this primarily to biology.

The cultural element is not the intestine-to-brain signal when fatty acids are introduced.

The cultural element is how the format of instruction and expectations of student behavior are different in limudei kodesh subjects versus limudei chol. Or how teachers are trained. Or the existence of cultural legacies.

In other words, it's not simply enough to say, "don't give nosh" or "give fruit instead." You have to look at the actual effects of the feeding behavior and all of its causes.

Now, you might find that some situations, indeed, call for the fatty acids of junk food. Other situations may lend themselves to fruit. Still other scenarios might eschew feeding entirely.

The point is that apples are not substitutes for brownies. The point is that we think carefully about when, how, and why we're feeding kids.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 4:27 pm
Fox wrote:
Guidelines for what? How to alter the biochemistry of your intestines so that your brain knows when your body has had enough to eat?

Yes, we all agree that obesity is a significant risk factor for many life-threatening diseases and is furthermore a public nuisance, particularly when leggings and crop tops are involved.

But you're ignoring scads of science that points to the fact that improving diet, in particular, is not simply a matter of education and willpower.

Giovanni Cizza, MD, PhD, and Kristina I. Rother, MD, from the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases, Bethesda, Maryland, wrote critically on this subject that the field of research on the mind-body connection "has suffered from a Cartesian top-down approach, in which the brain or mind is presumed to influence the body." NIH -- Are We What We Eat?

There's no question that we should all do whatever we can to eat healthfully, eat mindfully, and exercise.

However, when doctors tell us to diet and exercise, they are acting precisely like doctors in 1970 who told peptic ulcer sufferers to reduce stress and avoid spicy foods. They're doing the best they can with the available information. There's no question that peptic ulcers are less painful if you avoid spicy foods and it's also true that excessive stress can trigger an acute episode.

But that advice turned out to be a case of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Present the symptoms of peptic ulcers today, and you'll be given an antibiotic, which in the vast majority of cases will cure the problem. Your body will then be able to tolerate spicy foods and excessive stress won't cause you to double over in gastric pain.

Eventually, researchers will likely figure out why some people's bodies make them or allow them to overeat. They'll then devise whatever treatments allow people to implement better nutritional choices and exercise. And then the folks who've been braying about what awful diets people have will say, "Whoops, my bad!" and go along their merry ways, never taking the slightest responsibility for their outrageous oversimplifications.


Until that day comes, having a healthy diet and exercising is the best advice.

I had a diagnosed ulcer when I was in my twenties. I was bleeding in my stomach. It was treated by avoiding spicy foods and getting out of my stressful job. Guess what? That treatment worked. I haven't had a symptom for 3 decades. Did the bug go away on its own? Could there be some merit to the advice until it was replaced by better treatment? Was there a simple placebo effect?
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water_bear88




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 4:27 pm
Fox wrote:
The cultural element is not the intestine-to-brain signal when fatty acids are introduced.

The cultural element is how the format of instruction and expectations of student behavior are different in limudei kodesh subjects versus limudei chol. Or how teachers are trained. Or the existence of cultural legacies.

In other words, it's not simply enough to say, "don't give nosh" or "give fruit instead." You have to look at the actual effects of the feeding behavior and all of its causes.

Now, you might find that some situations, indeed, call for the fatty acids of junk food. Other situations may lend themselves to fruit. Still other scenarios might eschew feeding entirely.

The point is that apples are not substitutes for brownies. The point is that we think carefully about when, how, and why we're feeding kids.


I certainly agree with your last line. I think you and I are defining junk food differently, btw- fatty acids, provided they're natural (saturated or unsaturated) and not synthetic, are necessary to the human diet in a way that refined sugar never has been nor will be. I'm talking about, as one pp put it, shehakol nosh as opposed to mezonot or adamah.
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water_bear88




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 4:32 pm
Also, kids' needing fatty acids to keep their brains running through a full school day is much better helped by encouraging high-fat healthy or even healthy-ish snacks for everyone than offering cans of soda to the kids who are already managing well enough to answer questions or whatever else is being incentivized.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 5:09 pm
Do you really think it's lack of education? Are you telling me that all the garbage food that is passed around in school and shabbos programs, somebody thinks it's good for my kids? Or the gazillion cookies my kids are offered when they go to a friend's house? No way. I think it's just easier and cheaper and also more exciting. And therefore what kids are conditioned to. Even if I would offer to sponsor the snack in a shabbos or school program and do all the washing and cutting up to serve trays of fresh fruit, half the kids would turn up their noses; the other half would be disappointed.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 5:11 pm
petiteruchy wrote:
I'm guessing op is referring to my posts, at least in part. For the record, I'm a vegetarian, was vegan for many years, and have a slim, athletic build. I weigh the same amount I have weighed since I was 18 and I'm now mid 30s. Our family is very active and my kids swim, run races, bike every day and do dance/gymnastics etc. We're very health conscious and none of us are heavy.

I used to be very snooty about my eating habits and consistent weight. Partly because my mother was always telling me to stop eating and I had a lot of resentment about it. I have a fast metabolism and ate a ton as a kid and teen. And I watched her struggle with her weight ( even though she's naturally slim) and get on my sister's case ( who isn't). I watched the absolute destruction caused by my grandmother's fat phobia act out on my aunt who then acted on her two children... Healthy normal people now destroyed by anorexia.

Then I started learning about the socioeconomic and environmental forces behind the so called obesity epidemic, and the fact that we've actually never had a time in human history when so many people had access to sufficient calories. Food scarcity has been an ongoing dilemma since the very beginning and we actually don't know exactly how this works.

I also met some very strong and intelligent people who were resisting the idea that they were somehow deficient for being fat. The amount of fat shaming and fat hate out there, well, if were something truly easy to fix, or even something we had as much control over as we think, no one would choose this.

These lessons and a few others have really taught me that a) my appearance and weight are almost entirely genetic and not because I have more self control or moral fibre, b) everyone needs healthy food in their lives but what that actually looks like is quite variable and c) people who equate weight with healthy, fresh food, and with healthy bodies have the wrong end of the stick.

Everyone deserves to eat fresh, healthy delicious food. Every child deserves to have their body's signals listened to and respected. I don't know a single woman out there who doesn't carry some baggage about her weight or shape and I don't understand how people don't see the connection between these destructive messages and that destructive mindset.


You still haven't answered where is the research to back up the "satiation switch" in 20 month olds?

Your feel good nonsense is destructive because while you claim you won the genetic lottery and that's why you are thin, you condtrict yourself with the facts you were a vegan for years and are a vegetarian and you are tremendously active. Write back when you are slim, don't do any activities and eat cow twice daily.

No, every child doesn't deserve to have their body's signals respected if that means allowing them to overeat destructively. Your message is wrong for those children that are obese. Those children who are obese deserve to have their weight dealt with with respect and a positive attitude, but to allow health issues to develop without addressing them is neglect. And the child will suffer a lifetime. ITA that to deal with the overeating in a negative way is also lifetime destructive.

I was always slim until I moved to Monsey in my forties. I was a size 1 the week I gave birth up from a zero. I was extremely active and did a couple hundred sit-ups a day along with a full exercise routine. I could span my waist with two hands and a small gap. It wasn't genetics. It was a healthy lifestyle.

When I moved into the frum world, my weight ballooned. Everything is food. Socializing was shopping and/or lunch. All physical activities outside the house, except for walking, were frowned upon. Jogging, bike riding, roller blading are all forbidden. All the lunch places have more or less high calorie options without the fish being prepared fresh.

Nothing changed genetically with the unhealthy lifestyle. As I gained weight, I developed a myriad of health issues that precluded me from exercising. Losing weight resolved those issues.

In order to be healthy, I had to learn to navigate this world in a healthy way. I now watch what I eat and resumed my old exercise routine.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 5:18 pm
amother wrote:
Do you really think it's lack of education? Are you telling me that all the garbage food that is passed around in school and shabbos programs, somebody thinks it's good for my kids? Or the gazillion cookies my kids are offered when they go to a friend's house? No way. I think it's just easier and cheaper and also more exciting. And therefore what kids are conditioned to. Even if I would offer to sponsor the snack in a shabbos or school program and do all the washing and cutting up to serve trays of fresh fruit, half the kids would turn up their noses; the other half would be disappointed.


Ok, but if the other half would eat it, then that is progress. If there were no other options, most would eat the healthy food. I don't keep junk in my house, so if they want to eat they are welcome to healthy food or not. They all choose to eat something.

I think a lot if it is a lack of knowledge. Where would they get the knowledge from¿ I think many women get it on this site or the guy in the health store says that something is good.
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petiteruchy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 5:25 pm
we're arguing at cross purposes here. in the myob thread, I was reacting to the grandmother's very subjective critique of the baby's appearance (she didn't bring numbers or percentages) and her emotional response to the baby's eating. the one thing she did bring an actual list of was what the baby ate, which wasn't junk. she didn't bring portion sizes or anything else objective. there's no way for any of us to really know if the baby is actually obese, objectively overeating or anything.

most of the posters critiquing the grandmother were suggesting that it's unfortunately very common to start restricting food to children (especially girl children) and to start laying our emotional reactions to size on them at a very young age. there was no suggestion that the child was walking around with a bottle of soda pop or a package of chips. all the foods mentioned were part of a healthy young child's diet. so the argument that all frum families stuff their children with junk and have no nutrition education doesn't make sense in this context.

in the husky boy thread, AGAIN, the op listed a lot of healthy eating habits that the family has. there was nothing to suggest that the family is eating extremely poorly or are uneducated about nutrition. again, no commenter was suggesting that she give him the key to the pantry, or tell him to ignore his veggies.

however, we're operating under different premises. I'm operating under the premise that a) healthy eating ALONE does not control body size, b) there may be very little we CAN do to ultimately control our genetic predisposition to certain body sizes and c) in our current thin-obsessed culture we have a duty to protect our children from destructive messaging about the value of body size, as much, if not more, than from becoming fat at all. that little husky boy may grow up to be a heavy man, despite all his mother's and his efforts, and he deserves to have a positive self image and confidence, just as much as the naturally rail thin man or anyone in between.
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 5:30 pm
Fox wrote:
A number of posters have criticized the practices of schools and individuals when it comes to using high-sugar, high-fat foods to elicit certain emotional or behavioral responses from children.

It is all well and good to disapprove of this practice, but again, let's look at the science behind the behavior:

Fatty acid–induced gut-brain signaling attenuates neural and behavioral effects of sad emotion in humans

To sum up, humans eat for comfort not because they lack discipline, but because of biology. It works! If you are feeling stressed, sad, angry, etc., you will feel better if you have a brownie. And, no, not because Bubby force-fed you every time you cried as a toddler. Because of the effects of fatty acids in the intestines.

So does that mean that we should throw our hands up and start distributing the nosh?

Of course not.

But it means that anyone who claims these are just "habits" is either woefully uninformed or lying.

So instead of simply criticizing the practice, maybe we should be asking when and why kids need (or we feel they need!) mood enhancement. Are there elements of contemporary life that essentially require kids (and adults) to be regularly sedated through fatty acids or medication? If so, what are those conditions and can we ameliorate them in any way?

Simply criticizing schools and teachers for the existence of biological facts is like kvetching that it's too darned bright when the sun comes up every morning.
this is a very good point. In my brother's class, 1/3 of the boys were on Ritalin in 8th grade. Our children need physical activity, time to themselves, and constructive hobbies.

BH, I eat terribly except when I skip meals, never exercise, and am thin. I have a friend who works out everyday and she is obese she eats really healthfully.
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amother
Gray


 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 5:34 pm
Self-regulation is a proven, studied, fact.

Restricting foods is a bad idea: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p.....ldren’s+behavioral+response%2C+food+selection%2C+and+intake
Restricting foods backfires: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18501474
If you don't mess with them, kids will learn self-regulation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12224660
Self-regulation study: http://www.sciencedirect.com/s.....00207

There are lots more.
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petiteruchy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 5:40 pm
my point is that naturally thin children go through life never thinking about what they eat or why. they may or may not have parents that encourage veggies and healthy foods because they're good for their bodies, or who limit sugar because of cavities. I'm a teacher and I've watched with my own eyes, over the course of years, naturally thin children eating nothing but white bread, candy and junk. but heavy children, because our society has decided one size is better than another, never get that. no matter how healthily or unhealthily they eat, they are on the road to disaster.

two 8 year olds are sitting next to each other at a birthday party. both have their eyes closed, savouring a bowl of icecream and cake. they lick the icing off their fingers and even sneak a lick from the bowl.

one child is thin, and everyone says, "wow, that cake must be good! did you enjoy it?" the other is fat, and everyone wonders why his parents are so uneducated to let a fat child eat cake. "ugh," they think, "don't they know they're setting him up for a lifetime of diabetes and heart problems?"
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 6:17 pm
petiteruchy wrote:
we're arguing at cross purposes here. in the myob thread, I was reacting to the grandmother's very subjective critique of the baby's appearance (she didn't bring numbers or percentages) and her emotional response to the baby's eating. the one thing she did bring an actual list of was what the baby ate, which wasn't junk. she didn't bring portion sizes or anything else objective. there's no way for any of us to really know if the baby is actually obese, objectively overeating or anything.

most of the posters critiquing the grandmother were suggesting that it's unfortunately very common to start restricting food to children (especially girl children) and to start laying our emotional reactions to size on them at a very young age. there was no suggestion that the child was walking around with a bottle of soda pop or a package of chips. all the foods mentioned were part of a healthy young child's diet. so the argument that all frum families stuff their children with junk and have no nutrition education doesn't make sense in this context.

in the husky boy thread, AGAIN, the op listed a lot of healthy eating habits that the family has. there was nothing to suggest that the family is eating extremely poorly or are uneducated about nutrition. again, no commenter was suggesting that she give him the key to the pantry, or tell him to ignore his veggies.

however, we're operating under different premises. I'm operating under the premise that a) healthy eating ALONE does not control body size, b) there may be very little we CAN do to ultimately control our genetic predisposition to certain body sizes and c) in our current thin-obsessed culture we have a duty to protect our children from destructive messaging about the value of body size, as much, if not more, than from becoming fat at all. that little husky boy may grow up to be a heavy man, despite all his mother's and his efforts, and he deserves to have a positive self image and confidence, just as much as the naturally rail thin man or anyone in between.


The biggest problem seems to be portion control rather than the foods selected. The size of the portions and the proportions of carbs/vegetables/proteins on a plate are also big issues in my community along with sugary junk foods and cake.

I can't agree that we can't control our body size because of genetic predisposition. I think this is true only to a certain small extent. Do you believe that frum Jews were selected out to be obese? Or do you believe it is lifestyle issues?

Do you feel the fact there is an abundance of food available in the country that this may be the leading correlation to the fat epidemic we are facing? Countries in famine have skinny populations. Counties in abundance have heavier populations.

More food = fatter people
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 6:19 pm
In a lifetime of dealing with weight issues, I've heard one line that I believe is truly useful:

"It's not my fault, but it's my responsibility."

It is irresponsible to say that obesity can be prevented or treated simply by making better food choices and getting more exercise. The science suggests that it's a lot more complicated than that and that our bodies may be working hard to overrule our brains.

That said, it is also irresponsible not work hard to establish healthful eating habits and good exercise habits.

Let me draw an analogy:

Though I'm long past the stage of life where the nursing-versus-bottles argument is relevant, I have a simple litmus test for whether I consider someone qualified to give advice to nursing mothers. If the individual/book/professional acknowledges the scientific existence of D-MER (a dopamine-related disorder that affects some women when nursing) and is willing to educate women about it, then carry on! If not, I consider it evidence that the individual/book/professional is either incompetent or ideologically driven.

The same is true for nutritionists and related healthcare educators and providers. If the nutritionist openly acknowledges how much we don't know about the causes of obesity . . . If the nutritionist references the role of gut-brain communication . . . If the nutritionist discusses the role of sleep . . . then he/she will probably have good information to help you take responsibility for your diet.

But if you get a blank stare or a breezy dismissal when you bring up some of the more complex factors in combating obesity, please run to the nearest exist. You've found a practioner who will be happy to show you how you are at fault -- but criminally incompetent at helping you take responsibility.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 6:27 pm
petiteruchy wrote:
my point is that naturally thin children go through life never thinking about what they eat or why. they may or may not have parents that encourage veggies and healthy foods because they're good for their bodies, or who limit sugar because of cavities. I'm a teacher and I've watched with my own eyes, over the course of years, naturally thin children eating nothing but white bread, candy and junk. but heavy children, because our society has decided one size is better than another, never get that. no matter how healthily or unhealthily they eat, they are on the road to disaster.

two 8 year olds are sitting next to each other at a birthday party. both have their eyes closed, savouring a bowl of icecream and cake. they lick the icing off their fingers and even sneak a lick from the bowl.

one child is thin, and everyone says, "wow, that cake must be good! did you enjoy it?" the other is fat, and everyone wonders why his parents are so uneducated to let a fat child eat cake. "ugh," they think, "don't they know they're setting him up for a lifetime of diabetes and heart problems?"


You and I come from very different worlds. There is very few judgements on a fat kid eating cake here. Both would be handed more.

One school here is serving chocolate pudding for lunch every day. Every kid gets chocolate pudding - as much as they want. What's the problem? Boys love chocolate pudding.

The problem is that is all they are getting - chocolate pudding!

And you really don't feel there is a cause to educate the school and the parents? It is laughable if it wasn't so tragic.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 7:05 pm
Squishy wrote:
I can't agree that we can't control our body size because of genetic predisposition. I think this is true only to a certain small extent. Do you believe that frum Jews were selected out to be obese? Or do you believe it is lifestyle issues?


I have to admit that I'm completely confused. You started out talking about educating people based on legitimate science, but you seem to have reversed course somewhere along the way.

Perhaps I missed it, but how did we establish that frum Jews are statistically more obese than other Americans?

When states are ranked by the percentage of obese adults, NY comes in 39th, and NJ comes in 41st. OH ranks 8th and IL ranks 29th, but all other states with significant frum populations rank even lower than NY/NJ in obesity.

I'm not sure why you want to reject all the science that says that diets that result in obesity aren't simply a matter of restricting the nosh and chocolate pudding. How can we combat poor diet if we refuse to examine why people gravitate toward nosh and chocolate pudding?

Squishy wrote:
Do you feel the fact there is an abundance of food available in the country that this may be the leading correlation to the fat epidemic we are facing? Countries in famine have skinny populations. Counties in abundance have heavier populations.

More food = fatter people


So what's the solution? Make sure there's a famine every few years?

The real question is, "Why do some people's brains tell them to keep eating when they no longer need nutrients?"

Most animals, by the way, do not continue eating far beyond their need for nutrition. However, Labrador retrievers are a well-known exception. Unlike most other dogs, they are known for their insatiable appetites and their extreme propensity for obesity. In fact, as many as 60 percent of Labs are obese. Just last summer, the reason was determined: Labs are missing all or part of a gene that helps their bodies know how much fat is stored and how much nutrition they need to survive.

No one is suggesting that human obesity can be explained as simply, but remember that this research came out less than a year ago! We are really in the infancy of research into this stuff.

I haven't heard anyone defend unlimited chocolate pudding. But please, please don't dumb down the causes of obesity and metabolic disorders.
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Tue, Apr 04 2017, 7:13 pm
It's undisputed that excess weight is caused by consuming excess calories.

Asking what makes people *want* to consume excess calories is a different question. And whether the same reason applies to children is yet another question as well.
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0 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 1:18 pm View last post
Baby boy leaking out of his diapers
by amother
3 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 11:55 am View last post
Iso toddler boy clothes hand me downs 18months-2t 2 Mon, Mar 25 2024, 8:41 pm View last post