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Forum
-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
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amother
Yellow
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 Sun, Apr 16 2017, 2:42 am
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Ds age 8 came home before yt with a chart from his Rebbi with different things he has to do each day of yt. There were things like davening, behaving, reviewing stuff that he learned and things like that. He tried to do all of it and with my reminders it helped. But there were days that he didn't. And I don't just mean that he did it halfway, more like he didn't do it at all. My question is, how truthful do I have to be? Can I check off that he did it when he really didn't? I really don't want to do that because it's lying and ds knows he didn't do everything every day. I also don't want to embarrass him and have him take back the chart the way it is. Any advice?
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amother
Orange
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 2:45 am
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It may be embarrassing for your child to come back with incomplete items, but I think it is far worse for you to send him a message that it's okay to lie.
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amother
Puce
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 2:49 am
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I feel like it's more embarrassing for me, that I wasn't on top of my child to make sure they did basic things every day. But I would never allow them to check off things they didnt do.
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tigerwife
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 2:55 am
| amother wrote: | | It may be embarrassing for your child to come back with incomplete items, but I think it is far worse for you to send him a message that it's okay to lie. |
This, and not allowing your child to take responsibility for his actions.
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amother
Yellow
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 2:58 am
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The problem is that he came home with a similar chart for Succos and I wrote the real truth. Ds had a total meltdown right before the bus came and refused to take the chart to Cheder. I ended up talking to the rebbi later on and told him why Ds didn't bring back the chart. I don't want to lie here, just wondering if anyone has any ideas what to do so we don't have a full blown meltdown again.
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amother
Yellow
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 2:59 am
| amother wrote: | | I feel like it's more embarrassing for me, that I wasn't on top of my child to make sure they did basic things every day. But I would never allow them to check off things they didnt do. |
I actually kept reminding him about it but hes 8 and wasn't so interested in doing it every day
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tigerwife
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 3:04 am
Why don't you remind your son about his meltdown and brainstorm together how he can avoid it this time, I.e. Complete the tasks from the chart. You can tell his rebbe that although it was hard at the beginning, he really improved as time went on. Don't teach your son that he can use meltdowns to manipulate you and that bad behavior doesn't matter if you fill out the chart as he pleases.
Don't be embarrassed; even if he is a kid, he is still his own person who makes his own choices.
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zaq
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 3:07 am
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Don't even think of lying for your child. What kind of lessons do you think your son would be learning? That Mom can be manipulated into covering up for him. That homework assignments can be safely ignored. That lying is ok. Fast forward ten or fifteen years. Do you want to find yourself lying to a judge about his speeding ticket, or worse?
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MitzadSheini
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 3:10 am
| amother wrote: | | I feel like it's more embarrassing for me..... |
Parenting decisions done to avoid our own embarrassment , though extremely understandable, common and normal, usually not good ones.
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amother
Yellow
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 3:17 am
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Thanks tigerwife. I did talk to Ds about what happened on Succos and he keeps saying he just won't take the chart back to Cheder. Is it ok for him to think he got away with it or do I have to make sure his rebbi knows again why he didn't bring it back?
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seeker
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 3:24 am
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BTDT. What they said, but I would also soften/positive-ify the result with an accompanying note along with the chart - e.g. if DD davened but only some of the days I could write a note on the chart saying something like "We are so proud of how beautifully DD davened from her siddur on Tuesday! The whole family enjoyed hearing her sing Hallel. Thank you, Morah!" I also tend to balance things out by being more generous with the subjective things - for example you can't fudge something like did or didn't daven, but if one of the items is "played nicely with siblings/friends" well I'm sure you can catch your kid playing nicely at least a couple of times a day even if they fall apart sometimes, and perfection is kind of ridiculous to ask of little kids anyway, so I'd give the check for that because they already have to cope with the imperfection of the objective checks missing. Or if it says "knew the parsha questions really well" - well, everyone at their own level, if she knew them after a review at home and a few hints you could consider counting that. I know my own kids, if one is really good at this stuff but was lazy about paying attention and reviewing then I wouldn't be so generous, but if they just don't have such a good memory then why punish them for that? I have a kid who doesn't like to help. I give her the easiest and funnest job, compliment her for helping, and check off the chart for "helped mommy prepare for Shabbos/yomtov" (I draw the line when she asks for the "job" of playing nicely to stay out of my way, or licking clean the bowl from cake batter! But swiffering the floor definitely counts.)
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amother
Firebrick
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 3:27 am
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I think you'd be surprised how many others also didn't do even the basics.
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amother
Yellow
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 3:36 am
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Thanks seeker, so the part about behaving and helping at home I checked off because he was mostly ok. I'm talking more about the parts of said tehillim and davened which he didn't do at all some days despite all my reminders.
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amother
Maroon
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 6:15 am
Op you seem to think that your 8 year old should be davening every day.
It's way to much to expect from that age, and totally unfair of teachers to demand it.
I try to get that age to daven the basics every day (birchas hashachar snd shema). Thats considered davening and deserves a check.
Of course I encourage more but I only give one reminder every day. Sometimes they're in the mood and sometimes they choose to ignore that reminder.
It's NOT embarrassing to send back a half filled out note. Teach your son to realize that.
Btw, I confirmed this with a professional so I know I'm right. Felt too guilty like you at first!
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Iymnok
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 6:20 am
Op, do you daven?
If so, have him sit with you for brachos or shema.
A minimum of torah tziva and shema will make him feel like he succeeded. Way more valuable than a full davening that's skipped half the time.
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Simple1
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 8:24 am
| amother wrote: | | Thanks tigerwife. I did talk to Ds about what happened on Succos and he keeps saying he just won't take the chart back to Cheder. Is it ok for him to think he got away with it or do I have to make sure his rebbi knows again why he didn't bring it back? |
That's one solution that doesn't involve lying. No need to offer explanation. I once read that teachers and rebbes do this as an extra motivation for parents who are able to benefit from it. It's not meant to be something to stress over.
My 8yo didn't actually get any charts this year. Her teacher believes it's her job to teach. Not to supervise what's going on in the home.
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amother
Jetblack
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 9:00 am
I was ten years old and my Morah had the same kind of chart and we all had to bring it back after yom tov. I was honest- no I did not daven every day. My classmate asked me 'what you didn't daven?' No I didn't. Was my reply. One thing I rather not daven then to lie that I did.
A child has to learn there are consequences in this world and also reward. If he didn't behave you leave the box empty-that's it.
What's the question?
When your son will be 35 and he will do a business deal and he botched up his partnership by ten thousand dollars, do you want him to lie about it and then RL get arrested?
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amother
Orchid
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 9:26 am
Will his rebbe embarrass him for not davening?
Will he feel uncomfortable for bringing back a half filled out chart?
If so then please don't send it back. No lying.
Just Loose it. Throw it out. Whatever.
It's not federal. So he didn't daven at 8 years old.
But if he will get anything negative then this can develop a hatred towards davening forever.
Last edited by amother on Thu, Jan 09 2020, 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Burlywood
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 9:32 am
| amother wrote: | I was ten years old and my Morah had the same kind of chart and we all had to bring it back after yom tov. I was honest- no I did not daven every day. My classmate asked me 'what you didn't daven?' No I didn't. Was my reply. One thing I rather not daven then to lie that I did.
A child has to learn there are consequences in this world and also reward. If he didn't behave you leave the box empty-that's it.
What's the question?
When your son will be 35 and he will do a business deal and he botched up his partnership by ten thousand dollars, do you want him to lie about it and then RL get arrested? |
Here's the real problem - he'll go back to school and all the other boys will have perfect charts, whether or not they davened etc. It's hard to be the only honest one. It would be a lot better if teachers asked children to record a mitzvah they did, or something they learned (or something that they wished they had done or learned) during the vacation. A child who does this, however imperfectly, will gain from the exercise and there's less incentive to lie.
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amother
Yellow
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Sun, Apr 16 2017, 9:38 am
| crust wrote: | Will his rebbe embarrass him for not davening?
Will he feel uncomfortable for bringing back a half filled out chart?
If so then please don't send it back. No lying.
Just Loose it. Throw it out. Whatever.
It's not federal. So he didn't daven at 8 years old.
But if he will get anything negative then this can develop a hatred towards davening forever. |
Op here. Yes he's embarrassed to take it back if it's not totally filled out and his rebbi gives a prize for the boys who bring it back whether or not it was fully filled out. His rebbi told me Succos time that he was wondering why Ds didn't bring it back. He said it's not meant to be a pressure just to encourage the boys. Ds said he doesn't care about a prize he'd rather not take it back if it's not filled out all the way
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