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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Pressure from school to do something counterproductive
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 10:30 am
My DS is in upper elementary. He was doing very poorly over the past year. The school is very aggressively insisting we get him a tutor. We agree that he would be better off with one but being that he is a very difficult, unmotivated child who is heading in the at risk direction we feel that forcing him to get a tutor against his will is going to end up backfiring and will just cause him to rebel. He agreed to start learning with my husband every night until his marks improve and we feel that under the circumstances we should accept his compromise. The school however does not (they are aware he agreed to learn with my husband every night) and is putting enormous pressure on us to find a tutor. To the extent of looking for a tutor without our agreement (but of course we will be the ones who will have to pay and force him to learn with the tutor) and calling us more than once a day to see what we have done in this area.

How should we handle this? Please don't say anything against the school. It won't help the situation.The question is limited to how should deal with them and the situation.

We already thought about getting a Rov to call them.
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sourstix




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 10:50 am
Does the school realize what they are dealing with? Sadly there's not much you can do if you don't agree together. He obviously has other issues. This is probably the smallest one.

I'm sorry your going through this. Have no other ideas as I see this is more complicated and don't have expertise just wanted to tell you I feel for you.
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Aylat




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 10:50 am
Why don't they consider your husband to be the equivalent of a tutor?
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studying_torah




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 10:51 am
Schools often have the idea they can demand things or force a parent to do whatever they say.
Honestly, no they cannot.
You need to be firm and remind them that everyone is here for the best interests of your child.
Having all of his best interests in mind might mean getting a tutor ( sometimes a stranger is less emotionally invested so the kid does better), it might mean learning with his father if his father can remain calm , it might mean backing off for a bit, it might mean your son learns with someone of his own choosing, ot might mean getting a professional evaluation.
But it does not mean they can pressure or force you because "we are the school".
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 11:02 am
Perhaps discuss with them a time period where, if they see improvement because he's learning with your husband, they will allow that to continue, and if there's no improvement, you will hire a tutor?
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vicki




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 11:02 am
I would guess they are afraid that you are underestimating his needs. And having your dh be the tutor can be interpreted as not being structured enough.
Have you expressed your concerns to the school? That you are willing to risk his education at this time, in order to save something much more important?
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amother
Pewter


 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 11:22 am
I am so sorry that he is struggling. I like the suggestions of giving it a trial with him learning with your husband.

If all else fails, maybe bribe your son with something he likes in order to learn with the tutor? If he is struggling academically and your husband is not a trained tutor or special ed teacher, perhaps it will only serve as a band aid to help your son keep up with the class but not get to the root of the problem. If you could find a tutor that would be a great match in personality for your son and help him taste success in learning, it may literally save his life and pull him up from that at risk status.

Also, the bribe can be something like music or karate lessons and it will boost his self confidence and add positivity to his life by giving him a feeling of success. I know all these things are expensive, I have a son who invest in quite similarly. But I view it as life saving money so that Ih I won't need to spend serious money helping him in the future to cure him of destructive behaviors due to his feelings of lack of success , chas v shalom.

Wishing you only the best and keep on davening!
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 11:32 am
Firstly, call admin yourself at this point daily if need be. Tell them he learned X amount of time and he reviewed Y. Ask the Rebbi what to review. Them tell the school what you are doing. Be pro-active. Let them tell up to stop the communication.

Secondly, let the school know it is a money issue. This is the best you are able to do until you can afford more. If they want 7 days a week commit DH to it.

Thirdly, be kind to the Rebbi. Give him something today (a bottle of wine/a sweet treat) for Rosh Chodesh Iyyar for instance. Tell him it is a little something to say TY asked show appreciation after the holiday let down.

Better relationship with the rebbi is a better class experience. The problems with the school are coming from the Rebbi. Get him on your side.

When the school perceives you as not the problem, they will back off. If you present as anxious concerned parents supportive of the school, in turn they will respect you and the oppositional relationship will mellow.
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 11:34 am
As a former teacher, I must tell you tutors rarely ever help. it's very difficult to tutor a child unless you are in the classroom and know exactly how info was presented.
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amother
Pewter


 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 11:39 am
amother wrote:
As a former teacher, I must tell you tutors rarely ever help. it's very difficult to tutor a child unless you are in the classroom and know exactly how info was presented.


There may be truth to this but a speech Therapist, I am in constant contact with the teachers and even get hold of notes or tests in advance. I establish a relationship with the teacher and help my students master content from a language processing perspective.

Additionally, the person who learns Gemarah with my son is a rebbe himself at a different grade level. He makes it his business to touch base with my son's rebbe all the time both to ask about what was taught and to advise the rebbe of progress made. And , my son's marks and comprehension have shot up so I cannot completely agree with you that tutoring rarely helps...
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 11:46 am
Chayalle wrote:
Perhaps discuss with them a time period where, if they see improvement because he's learning with your husband, they will allow that to continue, and if there's no improvement, you will hire a tutor?


We tried that. They called back the next day insisting on a tutor because they don't feel my husband would be as effective and my son really needs the help.

They are not being very understanding or willing to listen to our point of view. When they are being so pushy as to call us more than once a day and trying to hire people to tutor him without our knowledge or consent we don't think we can just tell them that we think he would be better off trying it out with my husband unless we really have a good way to tell it to them.
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 2:56 pm
amother wrote:
As a former teacher, I must tell you tutors rarely ever help. it's very difficult to tutor a child unless you are in the classroom and know exactly how info was presented.


As someone who tutors, and also as the daughter of a teacher who tutors children in other schools or classes, this is really NOT true!

A good tutor will be in touch with the teacher to know what material is being taught and how. Tutoring can make such a big difference if done properly and in conjunction with the educational framework the child is already in.

Also, a tutor who teaches exactly like the teacher usually won't make much progress because often the kids who need tutors are kids who can't learn well in the way they are being taught in the classroom, and an effective tutor can find other ways to get the kid to learn the skills and/or information needed.
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amother
Orange


 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 3:07 pm
Would you compromise by having a tutor pull him out of class at school? That may be a welcome break for him, as well as a better use of his time at school. I'm guessing he is even less capable of learning after school than during school hours anyway.

(My dh is a tutor who works with boys during school hours. Many have made drastic improvements in their ability to learn and retain info- and they benefit tremendously from having a mentor as well. Often it's the boys who are immature that are slower to make progress, assuming the tutor is skilled)
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amother
Khaki


 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 3:14 pm
I was a somewhat difficult child in later middle school and struggled with Latin in particular (I went to secular private school). My mother found the most amazing latin tutor. She was a PhD student, and had the best personality, and we really hit it off. She talked with my teacher and then said to me, "honestly, this guy does seem like a bit of a jerk, so how about you work with me, I will teach you and you can ace your next exam and we can show him!"

This really worked with me and I did well in Latin and my tutor was a good role model - for doing well in school even though she was irreverent and called my teacher a jerk. (He was.)

She really knew the material, so she was able to teach me in a way that was interesting and engaging to me. I wasn't getting it at all from the way my teacher taught it.

So I think that the right teacher, the right tutor, can be an enormous help.
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amother
Peach


 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 7:22 pm
We were in a similar boat when we were told to put our son on medication for adhd, or leave the school. We had been to numerous neurologists who all said my 6 yr old had adhd but my mother's gut told me that this was something else. My pediatrician told me to just accept it, my school told me I would have to leave, even my husband thought I was crazy... until my son collapsed with a brain tumor. After 6 months of constant drs he had not had even one brain scan...
Okay, that's besides the point. I still send my other children to this yeshiva and they (the administration) are still in the habit of insisting that they know/understand more than the parents. Thankfully my other children are all doing well, because I hear it is the same in all schools...
However, if they are not threatening you abt the tutor, it is your right and responsibility to firmly and respectfully insist that the school honor your role as primary decision makers for your child. Maybe suggest that they wait a prescribed amount of time (to give your son a chance to improve) before revisiting the tutor issue?
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 7:56 pm
A father with no experiencing tutoring who reviews with his son who is willing will ALWAYS be more effective than the most effective tutor in skillset where the student has no interest in learning. Until the child is motivated to learn, the best expert can't help. The father can be a great gateway into re-motivating the child, and maybe from there spring an interest in improvement via a tutor.
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notshanarishona




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 26 2017, 10:10 pm
Is he in a school that is too academic for him?
From a school's perspective , if you have a difficult child who is already behind in academics, if he doesn't stay up to par his behavior gets more difficult.
I'ts a rough situation.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 27 2017, 12:24 am
It sounds like no one really knows why your son is doing poorly. Having you hire a tutor gives the illusion that something is being done, even if it doesn't really address the underlying problem.

Without knowing more details about his problems, it's hard to suggest the right direction. However, I would definitely have some kind of educational evaluation that includes diagnosing any learning disabilities or even just alerts you to his most effective learning style or other strengths and weaknesses.

Unfortunately, it's not necessarily easy to find good diagnosticians. Many succumb to the temptation to declare everything a nail simply because they've been armed with hammers. Sometimes you have to have several evaluations to gather enough useful information to really address a problem.

Once you've narrowed down why your son is having trouble, you'll be better equipped to decide whether a tutor will make a difference.
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amother
Lemon


 

Post Thu, Apr 27 2017, 1:13 am
amother wrote:
As a former teacher, I must tell you tutors rarely ever help. it's very difficult to tutor a child unless you are in the classroom and know exactly how info was presented.


I'm curious why you fewl this way. Whether its chumash, math or science, why would a tutor have to know how it was presented in class to help a struggling student?
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 27 2017, 2:07 am
Is your son happy to learn with his father?
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