Did you join "areivim" ?

LittleDucky

Sun, Apr 30 2017, 3:27 pm

There are many issues with it. I am not an attorney or an accountant but when looking at this fake life insurance program it doesn't pass the smell test.
Few things that jumped out:
1. They don't say who is in charge. You are looking into it and can't figure out who runs it!! Who is overseeing to make sure people actually get the money?
2. They decide if they will pay out. A parent could pay into it for years and not ultimately get anything.
3. If you also have a normal life insurance policy they won't pay out or if you happen to have some money saved- you are deemed to "have enough resources" which discourages financial planning!
4. They only pay out at chasunahs. What about everything you need before then, like tuition, food, housing? They collect at the death and who is holding the money until the chasunah??
5. They don't have reserves. And mathematically it doesn't make sense. Plus they have a max amount collected at a time so what if CV many families need to collect at once?
6. They pay per kid you have that is still a minor. So larger families get more out than they put in? See #5. Math doesn't add up.
7. When families die, will they guarantee more will sign up? Again, math doesn't add up.
8. It is advertised as a tzeddakah not as actual life insurance...

Just stick to what works. Typical life insurance where you are guaranteed a certain payout no matter if you are poor or have a nice sum tucked away, no matter if all your kids are grown up or still in diapers. And you will get the money immediately if CV you get a payout.

amother

Red

Sun, Apr 30 2017, 3:37 pm

LittleDucky wrote:

I don't think what you are saying is true at all. I think Areivim is backed by the Agudah. You don't pay in. You only have to make a small payment if a member is niftar. The amount they collect depends on how many children the (niftar) member has. The more members Areivim has, the less each member has to pay in for a niftar. My husband called when this program first came out and all his questions were answered so he signed up (for free). Many gedolim back this up. My dh also has a different life insurance but this ends up costing very little each yr and is certainly worth it. OP, call the number advertised and they will answer all your questions.

cnc

Sun, Apr 30 2017, 3:40 pm

amother wrote:

I'm almost positive that this has nothing to do with the Agudah. It was a few askanim that came out with the idea alone and others wrote articles pointing out how it's a flawed concept.

amother

Chartreuse

Sun, Apr 30 2017, 3:47 pm

I joined. We see it as a way to give tzeddakah whilst accruing a possible side benefit. It costs a maximum of 28$ a month (it's often less, or nothing at all b''h)! I do know a family that received a payout when the mother (an equal breadwinner) was niftar. They don't only pay for chasunos. The money is put in trust by a rav close to the family, to be used as is deemed necessary. For this family, it helped them weather a traumatic situation with their dignity intact.

crust

Sun, Apr 30 2017, 3:52 pm

amother wrote:

I have the same experience.

amother

Chartreuse

Sun, Apr 30 2017, 3:58 pm

cnc wrote:

http://www.rabbihorowitz.com/PYes/ArticleDetails.cfm?Book_ID=1315&ThisGroup_ID=262&Type=Article&SID=2

Note that on the bottom of the page that I linked are an additional three articles which should be read first.

I believe that the Kol Yisroel Areivim indicated in the above links is now defunct, they couldn't muster enough members to get off the ground. The Areivim organization that we belong to is a professionally run enterprise that has been running efficiently for many years. The model has proven to be successful in reality. Many families have been saved from the indignity of the once ubiquitous "Save the Orphans" campaigns.

Maya

Sun, Apr 30 2017, 4:44 pm

amother wrote:

I don't like the idea of a Rav being in control of the money and deciding on the necessity of purchases. Rabbanim are not financial advisors and this opens lots of opportunities for abuses of power.

yOungM0mmy

Sun, Apr 30 2017, 4:48 pm

We are members. I know a family where the father passed away young. He had life insurance that paid off the mortgage, and she got a lump sum from areivim then to help out for immediate needs, plus she will iyh get when the kids get married (6 kids, none married when the father passed away). Meanwhile, she is working, raising the kids, tuition, taking them for therapy, etc but she doesn't have the worry of having to save for weddings. It is not instead of life insurance, but has given her dignity and some extra peace of mind. We have had a maximum of 25 taken per month, maybe 3 or 4 times this year, and have been told it can be taken from our maaser/tzedaka.

yOungM0mmy

Sun, Apr 30 2017, 4:49 pm

cnc

Sun, Apr 30 2017, 4:59 pm

amother wrote:

Do you have a link for the organization that you're referring to?

amother

Chartreuse

Sun, Apr 30 2017, 5:05 pm

cnc wrote:

Do you have a link for the organization that you're referring to?

After Areivim in Israel took off, two groups were simultaneously trying to set up American groups: Areivim USA and Kol Yisroel Areivim. The latter is the one referenced in the links. It was mismanaged and never took off. Areivim USA is an organized, efficient and streamlined organization.
http://www.areivim.info/terms.php

cnc

Sun, Apr 30 2017, 5:13 pm

amother wrote:

Thanks.
Is there a board ? There are no mention of any names on the site.

crust

Sun, Apr 30 2017, 5:23 pm

cnc wrote:

Thanks. I read them. So far, I've only heard first hand stories of people that were on Areivim USA and had the experience they expected. Nobody I know, thought this will be 'instead' of a life insurance policy.
It might run like a Panzi. The difference is that there is black and white evidence that the widow and her children revieve the money. So, it is tzedukah. The participants I know, are aware of the way it operates.

Last edited by crust on Wed, May 03 2017, 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Chocolate

Sun, Apr 30 2017, 6:01 pm

It's not a pyramid or ponzi scheme. It's a pre-planned tzedakah scheme. Nobody is making money off the people lower than them in the scheme (definition of pyramid).

It's just a group of people committing to donate $7 if there is an orphan. Maximum 4 per month, if there are more they collect the next month(s) too.

We can't afford life insurance (pre-existing medical condition and irregular income). If chas veshalom we needed to get tzedakah for such a situation, this is a much less humiliating way than sending out letters and setting up matching campaigns.

I think that even if we can afford life insurance, we will still stay members - not to receive, but to give.

amother

Chartreuse

Sun, Apr 30 2017, 6:26 pm

amother wrote:

ITA with everything you wrote. In the link I posted, Areivim clearly stipulates that it is not meant to replace life insurance. Re the bolded - my parents joined when they still had a couple of single kids. They have remained part of Areivim despite no longer needing the protection. It is a very admirable tzeddakah cause.