Yichud issues with housekeeper

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Forum -> Household Management

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amother

Sienna

Mon, May 08 2017, 4:57 am

We are thinking of getting a housekeeper for a few times a week, but dh works from home. Can he be alone with her while I run errands?

shabbatiscoming

Mon, May 08 2017, 4:58 am

Just leave the front door unlocked.

Hashem_Yaazor

Mon, May 08 2017, 5:08 am

That may not be sufficient. There has to be a real chance of someone walking in and in most places, an unlocked front door won't be a sign to anyone to come in and act as a shomeir.

You can have someone told in advance to pop in unannounced (and have them do it from time to time). It's best to clarify with a rav the exact ramifications for your specific case.

If you have smartphones, you can likely link up FaceTime or a similar app so you are constantly being a shomeir for your husband. A nannycam (webcam) linked up to an app if your husband is staying in one place may also suffice.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, May 08 2017, 6:33 am

then leave the front door open all of the way if possible.

yOungM0mmy

Mon, May 08 2017, 6:41 am

If you're in town, it's day time and you're running random errands on no fixed schedule, ie they don't know what time you are coming back, halachically it's fine.

mamallama

Mon, May 08 2017, 10:16 am

In a similar situation, we were told to leave the door open a crack, enough to see that it is open from outside.

Raisin

Mon, May 08 2017, 11:25 am

Why don't you try and find someone who can come in the late afternoon? My cleaner works from 4-8. I am home then anyway.

amother

Wheat

Mon, May 08 2017, 12:08 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

then leave the front door open all of the way if possible.

Really???

Orchid

Mon, May 08 2017, 12:24 pm

yOungM0mmy wrote:

If you're in town, it's day time and you're running random errands on no fixed schedule, ie they don't know what time you are coming back, halachically it's fine.

I believe that only works for the woman, not the man. That heter is called "ba'alah [lit: her husband] ba'ir" so it clearly referring to a heter available for a woman. There is no such heter called "ishto ba'ir" for a man. Ask your LOR.

amother

Powderblue

Mon, May 08 2017, 12:25 pm

Also - be considerate of your housekeeper. She may not want to be alone in the house with your husband - regardless of the Halachic workarounds you have in place.

My good friend's husband works from a coffee shop in situations like this in respect the family's Catholic help.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, May 08 2017, 1:51 pm

amother wrote:

Really???

Yes, really. Why not?

amother

Aquamarine

Mon, May 08 2017, 2:15 pm

I would be scared of extramarital affairs. No I wouldn't even if you paid me. Also it is yichud even if the door is unlocked. (Its no different than going to a strip with non jews.) A [gentile] is not a shomer.
Yes I am finatic!!!

marina

Mon, May 08 2017, 2:23 pm

Quote:

77. Consequently, if a man is at home alone and his wife is at work, and a female housekeeper arrives to clean, then he should leave the door literally open, thereby creating a Pesach Posuach. If his wife is in the vicinity and she is expected home shortly, then if she has the key, the door may be closed. If she doesn't have the key, the door may be closed but left unlocked

http://www.sichos-in-english.o.....7.htm

You are welcome Smile

Hashem_Yaazor

Mon, May 08 2017, 7:37 pm

I have no idea why I was hugged (maybe due to the time I posted? Wink

) , but regardless...leaving the door open may or may not be sufficient. It most societies today, people won't walk in to a house EVEN with the door open, and therefore, it's not enough of a deterrent to allow that heter UNLESS it was set up beforehand that someone should actually pop in unannounced or the husband is visible from the street the whole time and people are passing by and can see in without actually coming inside. If you live in an area where it's completely accepted to walk into someone's house is their door is open, then you may rely on this heter. But many people do not. Best thing is really to consult YOUR rav.

mommy3b2c

Mon, May 08 2017, 7:47 pm

amother wrote:

You would seriously be scared of your husband doing it with the cleaning lady??!!?

You should really go for therapy. Really.

amother

Purple

Mon, May 08 2017, 7:58 pm

Not sure The exact story but there was once a rav who was scared to be alone with his cleaning lady. They asked him why and he said it one minute she can change from ugly to pretty in my eyes. That's why the laws of yichhud applies to everyone attractive or not

amother

Aquamarine

Mon, May 08 2017, 8:13 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

You would seriously be scared of your husband doing it with the cleaning lady??!!?

You should really go for therapy. Really.

I didn't ask you how to keep halachot. But I love you anyway

amother

Magenta

Mon, May 08 2017, 8:17 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

You would seriously be scared of your husband doing it with the cleaning lady??!!?

You should really go for therapy. Really.

The laws of yichud apply to everyone so there is clearly room for concern. I used to think old and fat and ugly would be a great deterrent but then I found out my 25 year old husband was viewing the profiles of 70 year old women online and I realized that doesn't help at all. Yes, he is sick and supposedly most aren't like him but halacha wasn't only made up for sickos or addicts it was made for everyone for a reason. Access leads to temptation. He may not choose her in the street but if she's in his house and he's desperate he may go for it. She may even agree because he is her boss. Oh, and what about "al ta'amin be'atzmecha ad yom moscha" (don't believe in yourself until the day of your death)? None of us are better than that and can fully trust we'll never fall and sin.

yOungM0mmy

Tue, May 09 2017, 6:31 am

amother wrote:

That's why there are halachos of yichud which apply regardless of age or beauty, but you do not need to go above and beyond what halacha dictates and say you'll never hire a female housekeeper in case your husband is ever home alone with her for a little while. As I said above and marina posted the source, if it's not your regular schedule and you are coming home soon and they both know it, halacha says you're fine. Taking it further than that is your own paranoia or recognising your personal situation, but has nothing to do with halacha.

amother

Magenta

Tue, May 09 2017, 7:00 am

yOungM0mmy wrote:

I have a female cleaning lady who is always home alone with my husband. Nothing to do with my paranoia. We asked a shayla how we can work around it and go based on that. OP should probably do the same. Most don't say it's ok if the wife can be home anytime but maybe her rav would say that. Or give another solution. Or do errands at another time. I was responding to the post questioning someones sanity if she is concerned about her husband doing something with the hired help. I pointed out that he is not above that because no one is. I never said not to hire a female cleaning lady.

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