Not receiving a gett

amother

Lilac

Tue, May 09 2017, 4:11 am

I was interested in setting up a woman in my school. She appeared to be mid 30's with one son and divorced. When I approached her to discuss it, she told me that while she's been separated for almost 4 years, her ex is refusing to give her a gett. She said that his reason is because he doesn't want a divorce and is hoping she will change her mind. I was floored by this. She said thay she knew of several "regular and normal" guys that were refusing to give a gett. My question is while obviously there is no excuse whatsoever, what is the official reason these guys would say as to why they aren't giving the gett? Surely they would say something.

zaq

Tue, May 09 2017, 4:25 am

They probably lie and claim they want to reconcile. A horrific number hold the get hostage and use it to extort money and concessions. Does halacha even require that the man give a reason for refusal? I didn't think that according to the letter of the law a man was obligated to give a get except in cases of adultery on the wife's part. Fundamentally, a get is designed as a man's tool to get rid of a wife in whom he has found "ervat davar", not a woman's route to escape from an intolerable marriage (Let's not get into a discussion of misogyny vs. human rights or abuse of legal loopholes in a male-dominated society.)

mommy3b2c

Tue, May 09 2017, 5:02 am

zaq wrote:

I'm pretty sure that the Kesuba is a contract stating what the husband must do, and if he doesn't keep to the contract the wife has a valid reason to demand a get according to Halacha. I've never heard that women are not allowed to ask for a divorce in Halacha. Aren't there cases where the man I supposed to be put in cherem or beaten if he won't give a get?

zaq

Tue, May 09 2017, 5:13 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

Women can ask for a divorce but lefi halacha the man has to give it of his own free will. The cherem or beatings are a tool to help him decide that giving a get is what he wants to do. Only a genuine beit din can order "malkot", and no such beit din exists today. Beating a man up for refusal to give a get is a criminal offense in Western society. Cherem is a fairly weak tool effective only against people to whom this means anything and can be implemented only in very close-knit communities with unified leadership. It is not unknown for a man put in cherem to pick up and move to a community where nobody knows him and go on with his life happy as a lark.

zaq

Tue, May 09 2017, 5:15 am

amother wrote:

Sometimes it is a way to control a women. Or maybe they don't let thr kids see the father. Or maybe he is a kohen? Gd knows.

What does his being a kohen have to do with anything? A divorced kohen can remarry. Or do you mean he refuses because if he divorces his wife he can't remarry her?

amother

Indigo

Tue, May 09 2017, 5:24 am

zaq wrote:

What does his being a kohen have to do with anything? A divorced kohen can remarry. ?

A kohen can only remarry a girl or a widow. Slim chances. That's why a kohen is more likely to wait till she 'maybe changes her mind'.
I'm not justifying it. Just explaining.

Iymnok

Tue, May 09 2017, 5:46 am

amother wrote:

A kohen can only remarry a girl or a widow. Slim chances. That's why a kohen is more likely to wait till she 'maybe changes her mind'.
I'm not justifying it. Just explaining.

So withholding doesn't make a difference. He can't be with his wif, and he can't marry ANYONE. That's called warped logic.

imasinger

Tue, May 09 2017, 5:51 am

Yes, it is warped. Which is why several organizations encourage a man signing a Jewish prenup along with the kesuba. It says that if the woman is denied a get, the man has to pay her a large monthly sum for as long as he withholds it.

I hope the practice will continue to spread.

tichellady

Tue, May 09 2017, 6:46 am

zaq wrote:

In the Gemara you learn that there are many things that a beit din can't force a person to do but that doesn't mean that a. The Heavenly beit din Is ok with a person's immoral but legal behavior b. The person is not violating many other mitzvot such as "vahavta lerecha camocha" which is about how one treats his spouse.

There are specific cases when a beit din can force a get, such as when a husband doesn't fulfill his obligations to his wife, when he has terrible skin issues (I can't remember the example exactly but it was something really gross).
A beit din also has the power to annul a marriage and this is something that is done with some agunah cases, if there is grounds for annulment (the husband never revealed to his wife before marriage that he was a felon, that he was blind, that he suffered from mental illness, he lied about his assets, etc)

amother

Burlywood

Tue, May 09 2017, 6:55 am

amother wrote:

The best way to get a gett is to stop asking for it and to pretend you don't care if you get it or not. It's not fun for the guy then.

My ex gave me a get when he thought the girl he was seeing was interested in marrying him.

I'll never know for sure what happened there, but I kept joking that someone ought to start an agency that sets up "shidduchim" for these guys.

amother

Indigo

Tue, May 09 2017, 6:57 am

amother wrote:

Doesn't always help. Some guys are more stubborn than that. The reason that made their wives leave them, that same reason makes them not give a get. Exploding anger

yksraya

Tue, May 09 2017, 7:01 am

amother wrote:

This is only great if it's staged and after he gives the get he gets dropped. Or if he is set up with someone more abusive than him and will give him a great taste of his medicine..

yksraya

Tue, May 09 2017, 7:04 am

amother wrote:

Doesn't always help. Some guys are more stubborn than that. The reason that made their wives leave them, that same reason makes them not give a get. Exploding anger

Worth a try tho. Might actual work with most of them for 2 reasons:
1. The need to have a wife.
2. They might get excited they found a new victim.