Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Interesting Discussions
Not receiving a gett
Previous  1  2  3  4



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

Seas




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 09 2017, 8:49 pm
tichellady wrote:
Let's say she's not nasty , and he is, is it fair for him to use the get to extort her?


Of course not. How is this even a question, and more importantly how is this a response to what I wrote?
Back to top

tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 09 2017, 8:59 pm
Seas wrote:
Of course not. How is this even a question, and more importantly how is this a response to what I wrote?


I think it's hard when it comes to divorce for a husband to be able to objectively determine if he is " nasty" or his wife is and so using the get for extortion is wrong on either side. He may really feel that he is in the right, when in fact he is not. Do you really think that a man who shouldn't be getting custody rights usually thinks that is fair? Do you think they are honest with themselves about their failings as responsible fathers?
Back to top

amother
Seafoam


 

Post Tue, May 09 2017, 8:59 pm
amother wrote:
IME the mom is the courts automatic first choice for custody. Even if split, young kids usually go to the mom.

All I am saying is that there are exceptions to every rule. Not every man is in the wrong, not every self-proclaimed is really one, and what is public ally known may not be the whole truth.


Nope. In every divorce with children that I know there is joint custody, barring very severe issues on the part of one parent. So not buying that argument.
Back to top

tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 09 2017, 9:00 pm
amother wrote:
Nope. In every divorce with children that I know there is joint custody, barring very severe issues on the part of one parent. So not buying that argument.


Same here. And some of the cases I know about involve spousal abuse and pedophilia, and the husbands still got joint custody
Back to top

amother
Puce


 

Post Tue, May 09 2017, 9:13 pm
amother wrote:
Nope. In every divorce with children that I know there is joint custody, barring very severe issues on the part of one parent. So not buying that argument.


It's not an argument to buy. Don't believe me. Whatever. I know someone who is a wonderful person but didn't have the best lawyer. She got full custody even though prior to the divorce he only had parking tickets for alternate side of street day on his record. (And all paid up). Nothing criminal.
There were no severe issues on his part- court asked him to get psych consult and there was nothing to report. Clean bill of health.

But now he barely sees his kids...

It really depends on your lawyer, the other sides lawyer, your jurisdiction and the judge. Maybe this case is a once in a million. But it is true.
Back to top

tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 09 2017, 9:28 pm
amother wrote:
It's not an argument to buy. Don't believe me. Whatever. I know someone who is a wonderful person but didn't have the best lawyer. She got full custody even though prior to the divorce he only had parking tickets for alternate side of street day on his record. (And all paid up). Nothing criminal.
There were no severe issues on his part- court asked him to get psych consult and there was nothing to report. Clean bill of health.

But now he barely sees his kids...

It really depends on your lawyer, the other sides lawyer, your jurisdiction and the judge. Maybe this case is a once in a million. But it is true.


I believe that there are times when one spouse gets an unfair verdict in court. But I don't think that's the typical situation. I do think giving the husband the right to extort the get will ensure that the wife always gets an unfair verdict.
Back to top

Orchid




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 09 2017, 9:33 pm
amother wrote:
Nope. In every divorce with children that I know there is joint custody, barring very severe issues on the part of one parent. So not buying that argument.


And I know personally 2 Jewish ladies who were stripped of parental rights and had no contact orders placed on them. Thus, if they go to their 4 year old kid's chumash play, they will be arrested. As has happened.

There is a whole wide world out there and some of the most evil people on earth are family judges.

Sorry for the hijack.
Back to top

amother
Seafoam


 

Post Tue, May 09 2017, 9:40 pm
Orchid wrote:
And I know personally 2 Jewish ladies who were stripped of parental rights and had no contact orders placed on them. Thus, if they go to their 4 year old kid's chumash play, they will be arrested. As has happened.

There is a whole wide world out there and some of the most evil people on earth are family judges.

Sorry for the hijack.
[quote]

So sad, but seas and amother think it's totally fine for men to have and use a recourse for those and much lesser situations (say perhaps they want more visitation, or they want to pay less child support), but the women in your scenarios should just suck it up and never see their children.
Back to top

Orchid




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 09 2017, 9:50 pm
[quote="amother"]
Quote:


So sad, but seas and amother think it's totally fine for men to have and use a recourse for those and much lesser situations (say perhaps they want more visitation, or they want to pay less child support), but the women in your scenarios should just suck it up and never see their children.


I can't speak for Seas and amother but I don't think they were saying it's totally fine for men to use get as leverage. I think they were saying (well, I am saying) that to the extent halacha gives men this leverage, they may as well use it in pressing situations. If I were a man about to lose my kids, I'd use it. And so would you. I'm infuriated that men have that leverage and women don't. But that doesn't change the fact that I would use it if I could in times of need.
Back to top

amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, May 09 2017, 10:13 pm
Seas wrote:
And I call BeeEs. In a number of their cases (from their website), the woman was clearly in the wrong and she was crying agunah not because her husband wouldn't give a get, but because he wouldn't on her terms.

As to get refusal being abusive, the most you can say is that it's a form of violence. Well guess what, violence is permitted in self defense. A man would have to be crazy to give up his one bargaining chip without guaranteeing his own safety.


To assess the validity of this statement, we first need to define what "on her own terms" means.
Back to top

amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, May 09 2017, 10:27 pm
I also want to comment on what Seas said about withholding a get being like a form violence used as self-protection. Yes, sometimes violence is necessary or inevitable, but it causes trauma and leaves marks on all the parties involved no matter the righteousness of the cause.

Of course, the ones being hurt the most are the children. In most cases it is better for the children to see the parent less often than for the parents to prolong the battle "for the sake of the kids". In most cases, fighting for more support or visitation or whatever is pure selfishness.

Cases of true danger such as abuse are exceptions to the rule. If parents really wanted to do what's best for their kids, they would be kinder to the kids' other parent. They say that about marriage but it's even truer in divorce.
Back to top
Page 4 of 4 Previous  1  2  3  4 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
What gifts do seminary girls like receiving?
by amother
0 Mon, Sep 11 2023, 1:16 pm View last post