Divorce or Annulment?

amother

Lawngreen

Wed, May 10 2017, 3:42 am

Yeah, I know, AYLOR.

Anywho, what would you do if there were no children involved, and you found out that your DH was on the Autism spectrum? He didn't deceive you, because he's not self aware enough to know he has it, but he refuses to be evaluated. He insists he's the perfect husband, and never does anything wrong.

Would it be better if you went to the beis din and asked for a divorce, or do you have grounds for annulment? Which one is better?

I don't want to drag DH through the mud and embarrass him, but I have to say something to justify my need to end the marriage, because he IS being abusive and controlling.

I have no desire to get revenge on him or anything, I just want to know the easiest and most appropriate way to go about it.

amother

Black

Wed, May 10 2017, 6:12 am

Hila, that's not true, there absolutely is a concept of anulment in halacha. It's just very very rarely used. There are reasons. My grandmother's aunt got one back in the shtetl because her first husband, a World War I veteran, had severe PTSD and didn't have the mental capacity to give a valid get; the beis din ruled that he hadn't had the mental capacity to effect a valid kinyan at the time of the wedding. Therefore they were never actually married and didn't need to divorce. Her second husband was a kohen which was allowed because an annulment is not a divorce. So that's really the difference, if you have an annulment you can marry a kohen. But you will likely need a get. Annulments are only granted in very unusual circumstances.

myself

Wed, May 10 2017, 7:24 am

amother wrote:

I believe this is only possible if the marriage hasn't been consummated. I stand corrected though.

amother

Lawngreen

Wed, May 10 2017, 7:35 am

amother wrote:

That makes sense, thank you!

amother

Peach

Wed, May 10 2017, 7:50 am

My sibling was in a similar situation. The Bais din ruled that since the spouse had stayed with the spouse and lived with them after knowing about the mental issue, they could no longer proceed on the grounds of 'mekach taus'- a mistaken purchase.

In other words, by staying with the spouse for several weeks after knowing about the diagnosis, my sibling signaled that it wasn't a given that they for absolute sure wouldn't have married them with this condition.

This was how the Bais din's ruling was explained to me at the time. Being that I wasn't the involved party, I may have some details wrong.

amother

Gray

Wed, May 10 2017, 9:13 am

I found out my husband had a certain mental health issue and I got a get. It's not worth playing around.
Unfortunately todays days bes din does not ask you why you want to get divorced. If you call your husband to bes din you don't get your kesubah money. And also if you leave the house you can be denied kesubah money.
Before assuming he has autism there maybe other problems that can be solved.
I am not trying to knock you down but Autistic people are usually the victims and not the abusers. So I wonder if he is really autistic.
I hope you find your solution to the problem quickly.

doctorima

Wed, May 10 2017, 9:48 am

While annulment expands your remarriage options to include a Kohen, you should also realize that there may be many potential suitors who could be scared off by a woman who was "married" and then ended things without a get. I'm not saying it can't be done in a halachically valid way, or that Bais Din's decision shouldn't be respected, but there are too many stories today with politically and financially motivated rulings that have caused people to be skeptical and cynical when they hear such stories, and many men may decide it's not worth the risk.

OP - if you ask DH for a get, or go to Bais Din to open a case, do you have reason to think he'll refuse? This isn't about dragging him through the mud; the Bais Din may not even ask too many questions. It's about what you're 99.9% most likely halachically required to do, and considering the potential consequences of getting it wrong, this wouldn't be a time to go Rabbi shopping to try to find somebody to give you the p'sak you'd like to hear.

amother

Gray

Wed, May 10 2017, 10:05 am

amother wrote:

My friend annulled her marriage within the past decade. If can be done, depending on circumstances. You need a very specialized Rov. She went to R' Nuta Greenblatt in Memphis.

Definitely annul, if possible. It enables you to marry a Cohen.

If an almanah that had to do chalitza and a girl who isn't virgin are not allowed to marry a cohen then how can this be more mutar?
(Poor girl she has to make this hard decision about ending a marriage. I had to also. Its a death of a dream.)

tichellady

Wed, May 10 2017, 10:11 am

amother wrote:

It is mutar. That's the halakha. A Cohen is allowed to marry a non-virgin (widows are presumably not virgins).

amother

Orange

Wed, May 10 2017, 10:15 am

amother wrote:

First of all, a girl who is not a virgin CAN marry a cohein as long as she did not have relations with someone forbidden to her.

SixOfWands

Wed, May 10 2017, 10:16 am

amother wrote:

If your husband is abusive and controlling, then by all means you should take whatever steps are necessary to end the marriage.

But the fact that someone is on the autistic spectrum doesn't necessarily make him a bad man or a bad husband.

And IMNSHO, divorce, not annulment. First of all, it leaves fewer questions. Because I would certainly be concerned about whether an annulment was done properly and appropriately, given the risk of a child being a mamzer if it were not. You also say that you don't want to drag your husband through the mud and embarrass him. Well, how could an annulment not do that? "Malky, weren't you married." "The beit din annulled it." "why?" Now you have to attribute a mental deficiency to him. And he'll need to explain the same to any potential future dates.

amother

Gray

Wed, May 10 2017, 10:24 am

tichellady wrote:

It is mutar. That's the halakha. A Cohen is allowed to marry a non-virgin (widows are presumably not virgins).

The reason why a kohen can't marry a divorced girl is because in case she did forbidden things. A widow lost her husband. My friend is not virgin because she had a boyfriend when she wasn't religious and she can not marry a kohen

tichellady

Wed, May 10 2017, 10:28 am

amother wrote:

If her boyfriend was Jewish, she could marry a Cohen. A woman who slept with a gentile cannot marry a Cohen. Other non virgins can. I am 100% sure that a woman whose marriage was annulled can marry a Cohen. I just went to a shiur where this came up.

amother

Orange

Wed, May 10 2017, 10:35 am

amother wrote:

I'm sorry that your friend was poorly advises. Unless her boyfriend was not jewish, its not a problem.

http://www.yeshiva.co/ask/?cat.....erby=
Question:
Who is considered a zonah -- forbidden to marry a Cohen? Is a girl who had premarital relations with a jew considered a zonah? If yes, what if she was raped?

Answer:
In general, if a woman has s-xual relations with a man she is Halachicly prohibited to marry; she becomes a Zonah and can't marry a Cohen.

If she had even multiple s-xual relations, but none, with which she can't halachicly marry – she is not a Zonah.

Therefore for instance, if a woman had relations even once with a non-Jew, since they can't marry him, she is a Zonah; on the other hand, even a harlot that had only Jews - is not a Zonah.

For this matter even forced relations count.

(See Shulchan Aruch EH 6; 8)
Additional answers of Rabbi Elchanan Lewis

http://www.chabad.org/library/.....s.htm

A zonah is a woman who has had incestuous or adulterous relationships, or has had s-xual relations with a non-Jew.