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Trump/Comey.....help me understand please.

 
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shoshanim999









  


Post  Thu, May 18 2017, 12:36 pm
So from watching and reading the news media this is what I'm getting:

1. Around 3 months ago Trump and Comey ate dinner together. 2 scoops for Trump, 1 scoop for Comey.

2. Around 11 weeks pass.

3. Trump fires Comey.

4. A week later Comey announces that during his dinner with Trump, he was asked to discontinue a particular investigation and he believes that this request from Trump might be an obstruction of justice, which is an impeachable offense. His evidence is that he himself wrote it down.

I'm certainly not a political expert, but at face value this seem a little strange. The media is piling on as if this is a no-brainer obstruction. A few thoughts:

1. If Trump indeed asked Comey to obstruct justice by not continuing his investigation, how dare Comey not come forward IMMEDIATELY. He loses his credibility by coming forward 3 months later. Not to mention only coming forward after he was just fired by Trump certainly makes it appear as if he might be taking a measure of revenge.

2. How on earth is this comparable to the Nixon watergate scandal??? In the Nixon scandal there were many witnesses that testified to Nixon's knowledge of the break in. Also, Nixon himself was ON TAPE trying to arrange for a cover up. How at this point is this similar to Trump? All we have is Comey's word saying this is what Trump asked him to do. No witnesses, audio or video tape or ANYTHING that corroborates his allegation. It's just the word of 1 man making a claim 3 months later against the man who fired him. Seriously???
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QueenBee3









  


Post  Thu, May 18 2017, 2:32 pm
I think your post clarified the story for me.
thank you!
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SixOfWands









  


Post  Thu, May 18 2017, 2:50 pm
shoshanim999 wrote:

4. A week later Comey announces that during his dinner with Trump, he was asked to discontinue a particular investigation and he believes that this request from Trump might be an obstruction of justice, which is an impeachable offense. His evidence is that he himself wrote it down.


Actually, Comey didn't leak the memo. Others did. They were informed of it contemporaneously. Please also note that it was done in connection with threats that Trump made to Comey on his firing, including statements that Comey "better hope" that their conversations were not recorded. And lies about the circumstances of the meetings.

Was it an impeachable event? Don't know. But it certainly is something that should be discussed. As is Trump's assertion that those who print leaks should be imprisoned. A complete 180 from where he was when it was WikiLeaks on Clinton, of course.

shoshanim999 wrote:

I'm certainly not a political expert, but at face value this seem a little strange. The media is piling on as if this is a no-brainer obstruction. A few thoughts:

1. If Trump indeed asked Comey to obstruct justice by not continuing his investigation, how dare Comey not come forward IMMEDIATELY. He loses his credibility by coming forward 3 months later. Not to mention only coming forward after he was just fired by Trump certainly makes it appear as if he might be taking a measure of revenge.


So your problem isn't that Trump attempted to interfere in an ongoing FBI investigation, but that the FBI (which did not act on the request) didn't immediately report it?

Assuming that Trump did exactly what the memo says he did. are you OK with it? Why are we concentrating on Comey instead of on Trump?

shoshanim999 wrote:

2. How on earth is this comparable to the Nixon watergate scandal??? In the Nixon scandal there were many witnesses that testified to Nixon's knowledge of the break in. Also, Nixon himself was ON TAPE trying to arrange for a cover up. How at this point is this similar to Trump? All we have is Comey's word saying this is what Trump asked him to do. No witnesses, audio or video tape or ANYTHING that corroborates his allegation. It's just the word of 1 man making a claim 3 months later against the man who fired him. Seriously???


So if Trump isn't on tape, its OK with you, because Watergate was all about the tapes?

Trump famously said, "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, okay, and I wouldn't lose any voters, okay? ... It's, like, incredible." He's right.
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miami85









  


Post  Thu, May 18 2017, 3:20 pm
This was my husband's explanation--b/c I myself am not sure what is going on--but based on his response, does anybody?

1- Some of it is inaccurate. Comey hasn't even announced anything. A 'friend' of Comey read from part of a memo (Comey apparently takes memos after meetings) that sounds as though Trump made some sort of remark about letting the Flynn thing go. We haven't seen the memo, don't have full context, don't know whether Trump asked for him to drop it or expressed an opinion that now that Trump fired Flynn it's a waste of time. Total vacuum of actual knowledge of facts. Comey himself hasn't said anything, certainly not that Trump tried to influence anything.

2- Since the Dems and Media have worked since November to gin up this Trump/Russia scandal with a total absence of actual hard evidence (some circumstantial but mostly hot air), the Comey firing and alleged memo look a lot worse from that perspective than if this was the first we were hearing of it.

Who knows what Trump did? I certainly have no faith that he didn't do all this but there is 0 evidence thus far other than smoke (a lot of which is coming from the Democratic Party smoke machine).

This is just the hyperventilating of an increasingly dishonest media on its way towards irrelevancy.
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Jeanette









  


Post  Thu, May 18 2017, 4:53 pm
Are you trying to understand or just venting?

The DOJ has just appointed a highly qualified, non partisan special prosecutor. I trust that he will do a thorough job and the truth will come out. If Comey did wrong, he will be held accountable. If trump did wrong he will be held accountable. Isnt that what we all want?
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SixOfWands









  


Post  Thu, May 18 2017, 5:16 pm
Jeanette wrote:
Are you trying to understand or just venting?

The DOJ has just appointed a highly qualified, non partisan special prosecutor. I trust that he will do a thorough job and the truth will come out. If Comey did wrong, he will be held accountable. If trump did wrong he will be held accountable. Isnt that what we all want?


A special prosecutor was NOT appointed. Mueller was appointed special COUNSEL. As USA Today explained:

Quote:
The terms are largely interchangeable to refer to someone appointed to investigate allegations that could involve a conflict of interest within the Department of Justice. But the manner in which they are appointed and why has changed over time.

The president has always had the authority to name a special prosecutor. After the crisis brought on by the Watergate scandal, Congress passed a law creating an "independent counsel" who could be appointed by a three-judge panel. After the experiences of the Iran-Contra investigation and the probe into the Clinton's Whitewater land deal, there was bipartisan support to abandon that law. Now, the attorney general, in addition to the president, has the power to appoint a special counsel.

The statute regarding the grounds for appointing a special counsel says the attorney general, or acting attorney general in cases where the attorney general is recused, can appoint a special counsel when a case presents a "conflict of interest" for the Justice Department, or "other extraordinary circumstances." In this case, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein was able to appoint Mueller because Attorney General Jeff Sessions has recused himself.


What it doesn't mention is that Rosenstein can fire him. Or if Rosenstein himself is fired, he would be replaced by someone who can fire Mueller.
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shoshanim999









  


Post  Thu, May 18 2017, 6:05 pm
Jeanette wrote:
Are you trying to understand or just venting?

The DOJ has just appointed a highly qualified, non partisan special prosecutor. I trust that he will do a thorough job and the truth will come out. If Comey did wrong, he will be held accountable. If trump did wrong he will be held accountable. Isnt that what we all want?



I think we're talking about 2 different things. The special prosecutor was appointed to look into whether Trump had ties to Russia with regard to the election.
The Comey issue and the possible obstruction of justice that took place during their meeting has nothing to do with the special prosecutor as far as I know. And yes we all should want to hear the SP findings and resolve the matter one way or another.
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Jeanette









  


Post  Thu, May 18 2017, 6:27 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
What it doesn't mention is that Rosenstein can fire him. Or if Rosenstein himself is fired, he would be replaced by someone who can fire Mueller.


If either rosenstein or mueller is fired that would indeed be very bad. I dont expect trump's base to care, but senators and congressmen need the support of more than just Trump's core base to be reelected.
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Jeanette









  


Post  Thu, May 18 2017, 6:31 pm
shoshanim999 wrote:
I think we're talking about 2 different things. The special prosecutor was appointed to look into whether Trump had ties to Russia with regard to the election.
The Comey issue and the possible obstruction of justice that took place during their meeting has nothing to do with the special prosecutor as far as I know. And yes we all should want to hear the SP findings and resolve the matter one way or another.


Yes I do believe the special counsel will also look into possible obstruction of justice in relation to the investigation. Maybe the investigation will conclude that it's nothing. Im fine with that outcome. I really have nothing invested either way. I just want transparency and checks and balances on the power of the president.
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shoshanim999









  


Post  Thu, May 18 2017, 8:24 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
So if Trump isn't on tape, its OK with you, because Watergate was all about the tapes?

Trump famously said, "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, okay, and I wouldn't lose any voters, okay? ... It's, like, incredible." He's right.



My point is that at this point, inspite of the headlines and round the clock coverage, this is very much a he said she said event that does not justify talk of impeachment. How can you compare Nixon, which we knew the accusations against him were true, with Trump, where there is only the word of the accuser. Also, I do believe that if the head of the FBI didn't come forward after the his meeting with Trump, it is logical to assume that nothing really happened. 3 months later? I have yet to hear any reasonable explanation for this.
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Jeanette









  


Post  Thu, May 18 2017, 8:57 pm
shoshanim999 wrote:
My point is that at this point, inspite of the headlines and round the clock coverage, this is very much a he said she said event that does not justify talk of impeachment. How can you compare Nixon, which we knew the accusations against him were true, with Trump, where there is only the word of the accuser. Also, I do believe that if the head of the FBI didn't come forward after the his meeting with Trump, it is logical to assume that nothing really happened. 3 months later? I have yet to hear any reasonable explanation for this.


My understanding is that Comey was worried that Trump was crossing lines inappropriately and wanted to have a paper trail to document it. A president is not supposed to interfere in an FBI investigation especially when it involves him/his associates.

As to whether it rises to an impeachable offense, I will wait for the special counsel to weigh in.

As to whether Trump or Comey is more credible, again I will let the justice system sort that one out. I have my opinions, you have yours, but ultimately it will come down to who has a history of being truthful and consistent regardless of the consequences, and who, well, doesn't.
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