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Proper swimming etiquette
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Fri, May 19 2017, 2:20 pm
mddm wrote:
I go swimming in a Frum Development pool, so only women in the locker room. I find that there are woman who change into and out of their bathing suits in the locker room where they are visible to all. I find it uncomfortable, especially when there are young girls there.
Is this common and I'm the crazy one or are they out of line??



You are not crazy for feeling uncomfortable!! I know yes, thats what the locker room is for and blah blah...
But I honestly think these people who walk around naked are just strange!
No mitzva in it!!
You can be descreet and spare everyone the details.
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nylon




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 19 2017, 2:32 pm
I don't like using communal changing rooms (and I dreaded changing at Loehmann's!)

BUt I don't think it's realistic or fair to have that expectation of others in a locker room. Especially since not everyone has mastered the art of putting on a swimsuit without taking off their T shirt.
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mddm




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 19 2017, 3:11 pm
nylon wrote:
But I don't think it's realistic or fair to have that expectation of others in a locker room. Especially since not everyone has mastered the art of putting on a swimsuit without taking off their T shirt.

I respect that... to change the angle a bit, should one feel inappropriate stripping down when changing and especially with young children there (I think we normally don't get naked in front of our children)...
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amother
Gold


 

Post Fri, May 19 2017, 3:46 pm
mddm wrote:
I respect that... to change the angle a bit, should one feel inappropriate stripping down when changing and especially with young children there (I think we normally don't get naked in front of our children)...


can we get some clarity on the halacha here? Its very difficult to talk about the appropriate way that someone should feel.
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mddm




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 19 2017, 4:02 pm
amother wrote:
can we get some clarity on the halacha here? Its very difficult to talk about the appropriate way that someone should feel.

I asked my DH... he said he knows that men do, but didn't know what we are allowed. When I was in school (many years ago) they used to teach us that we should get undressed without exposing... I would think changing into and out of your swimsuit is the same...
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amother
Gold


 

Post Fri, May 19 2017, 4:19 pm
mddm wrote:
I asked my DH... he said he knows that men do, but didn't know what we are allowed. When I was in school (many years ago) they used to teach us that we should get undressed without exposing... I would think changing into and out of your swimsuit is the same...


My preference is to change quickly and not be seen. That said, I'm not concerned that my daughter should see a naked woman. She knows that staring is never appropriate in any situation. Its also my prerogative to tell her that even though some ladies are comfortable to change in a less modest manner... that's not how I'd like her do it.

I do wonder if there any women in this forum who would be hashkafically inclined to live in a frum development, and would 'feel' comfortable in the 'immodest' way that OP observed. Obviously there are women IRL who are.
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Teomima




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, May 20 2017, 2:16 pm
Personally I have no issues with changing in a public locker room. I remember, as a kid, being embarrassed at first, watching the other women, and my mom, change clothes so openly. But as I've grown older, and brought my own daughters to locker rooms, I've learned to really appreciate the subtle message that every woman's body is different, that there's no one way to look (fat, skinny, shaved, au natural, large breasts, no breasts, etc), and that at the end of the day we did all share the same basic anatomy. It helped teach me to not be ashamed of my body. It's not that different from lessons we learn later in life, going to the gynecologist or being checked by the mikvah lady. A woman's body is only as taboo as you make it. My daughters understand modesty, but they also know that there's nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed of in a women's locker room.
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amother
Amber


 

Post Sat, May 20 2017, 9:33 pm
mddm wrote:
I asked my DH... he said he knows that men do, but didn't know what we are allowed. When I was in school (many years ago) they used to teach us that we should get undressed without exposing... I would think changing into and out of your swimsuit is the same...


I learned on imamother that sons shouldn't see their fathers erva. I don't think there's any such issue with women.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 21 2017, 1:13 am
Even though locker rooms are a place to change out of your clothes, and hence, be naked at some point (duh), I do think it is contradictory for someone for whom modesty is an important midda to be walking around naked any more than necessary in such a setting.

One can go into the shower wearing one's wet bathing suit, take it off in the shower, and emerge from the shower wrapped in a towel (keep it in a plastic bag in the shower stall while you are showering). Then change quickly and without fuss in the changing area.

I do agree that it is inconsiderate to spend time changing clothes in showers or bathroom stalls when there are may be people actually waiting to shower or go to the bathroom. Perhaps you can ask the owners of the facility to add changing rooms?

OP, perhaps to halve the problem, you can show up with your bathing suit on under your clothes. Then you only have to deal with this situation once per swim instead of twice.
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mddm




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 21 2017, 1:19 am
amother wrote:
I learned on imamother that sons shouldn't see their fathers erva. I don't think there's any such issue with women.

Do you know that it's not a problem for girls to see their mothers naked?
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 21 2017, 2:12 am
Before and after swimming lessons, my sisters and I would change in the corner holding up a towel for each other. We thought it was weird that someone would take a shower in a communal shower without their swimsuit on. even the non-jewish girls showered with their swimsuits on. Only the old ladies who came to do laps felt so at home. There were only four dressing rooms and three toilet stalls. We would never think to change in a toilet stall, we'd been caught before with a long wait due to such inconsideration. This was a public pool, open to the public.
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Chana Miriam S




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 21 2017, 2:44 am
Edited because I misunderstood. Sorry!

Last edited by Chana Miriam S on Sun, May 21 2017, 3:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 21 2017, 2:46 am
andrea levy wrote:
Considered ill mannered by whom? Some of the most expensive and exclusive clubs for women ( old and venerable institutions as well) are completely ok with naked swimming. Who made you in charge of etiquette for all of us?


I think you misunderstood.
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Chana Miriam S




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 21 2017, 2:50 am
mddm wrote:
Would you bring your teenage daughter to such an environment?


My daughter was on swim team and is a lifeguard. Yes, and I did not think twice about it.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 21 2017, 3:18 am
andrea levy wrote:

vicki wrote:

As a matter of fact it is considered ill-mannered to change in the shower rooms or bathrooms. However, more than 50% - probably more than 80% - of the women I see do change in the private shower rooms or bathrooms.
There are occasional arguments from the women waiting to shower or use the bathrooms for their intended purpose.

Considered ill mannered by whom? Some of the most expensive and exclusive clubs for women ( old and venerable institutions as well) are completely ok with naked swimming. Who made you in charge of etiquette for all of us?

I think vicki meant that it is inconsiderate to occupy a shower stall or bathroom stall changing clothes when there are people waiting to shower or go to the bathroom.

Nobody said anything about naked swimming. If the OP was going skinny dipping, I doubt she would care about being naked in the locker room. Smile
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 21 2017, 3:38 am
It makes me horribly uncomfortable, but yes some do get naked there. I don't bring my daughters.
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Zeleze




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 21 2017, 4:55 am
Not going to to say how I feel/do at home or in Public, but he in EY Erev Yom Kipur this happens at all Yerushalmi Mikves I'v been to the last 4/5 years.
No one really looks, or so I would wish but most just dunk in front of all types and ages, and get back home the quicker they can.

And I too do the same (on that specific day), when thats the Norm, I feel less ashamed.
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chavs




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 21 2017, 5:48 am
I take my daughter to changing rooms/ swimming and am very happy to. The fact that she sees women who are comfortable with their bodies and that she gets a chance to see normal bodies is actually something I'm glad for. I can't in any way see anything negative about it.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 21 2017, 6:17 am
Zeleze wrote:
Not going to to say how I feel/do at home or in Public, but he in EY Erev Yom Kipur this happens at all Yerushalmi Mikves I'v been to the last 4/5 years.
No one really looks, or so I would wish but most just dunk in front of all types and ages, and get back home the quicker they can.

And I too do the same (on that specific day), when thats the Norm, I feel less ashamed.
Im sorry but you have seen many women in the mikvah, together??? How is that even possible? with the many different rooms, why would women be together?
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mddm




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 21 2017, 6:32 am
chavs wrote:
I take my daughter to changing rooms/ swimming and am very happy to. The fact that she sees women who are comfortable with their bodies and that she gets a chance to see normal bodies is actually something I'm glad for. I can't in any way see anything negative about it.

Are you comfortable with her lookin at naked women in pictures (with the same logic) ???
Why should it make a difference if it is in person?
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