Where have we/I gone right?

amother

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 5:28 pm

This is a emotional vent which needs advice on. The reason it's jumbled is b/c I am not in the right frame of mind to put things together Dear reader.

Right now I am feeling quite down. We (my husband and I) have invested alot in our kids b'ruchnius as well as b'gashmius but alas I am no tzadekes myself and now I am reaping the consequences. When my son was little he was a good kid but once he turned bar mitzvah and we sent him away to a good Yeshiva he is going downhill in his yiddishkiet, He has recently told me Modern orthodox is the best of both worlds so why be chassidish.
. What do I respond to my kid who says he wants to work and not learn all day. Do I/we give in or do I try my hardest to still keep him in a yeshiva setting as long as they will still have him?

Because so far he is not a trouble maker, he is a follower not a leader and has excellent middohs. But how I wish he would get into the right group of friends perhaps then he will come back.

Yakira

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 5:45 pm

Amother, I'm not in your position, but I don't see MO being a disaster of a choice for a child to make. It's one thing if he went totally off. But as long as he is shomer torah u'mitzvos, why is it so bad that he's not following exactly the same minhagim as you?

I dont know how old he is, but most teens dont do well with pushing and force.

greenfire

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 6:51 pm

Dear Poster ... there are so many paths to Hashem and not a one is THE one ... they are all there for different people to reach Hakodosh Boruch Hu in the way that they can do it truly ... he sounds like a good boy and a sincere boy ... don't push him away with your worry about chassidishkeit ... back him up and he will remain true to everything you taught him - to believe in Hashem ...

Lechatchila Ariber

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 7:28 pm

greenfire wrote:

while I agree that she shouldn't push him away with her concerns, and that she needs to find the right way to keep him close, I still take issue with your first comment

Quote:

there are so many paths to Hashem and not a one is THE one ...

For a Chassidish boy from a chassidishe family a chassidishe path IS the right one for him.
Please don't belittle her concerns

red sea

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 7:31 pm

I can imagine it must be really upsetting for a child not to go the path you tried to teach. Nor can you guess what the future holds. Just because he expresses a desire to work & not learn all day does not mean he will give up keeping mitzvos. Does he want to change schools? Is he unhappy & getting rebellious as a result of the good school he's in? Are they preaching their way is the only way & he doesn't buy it?

Sometimes in an environment that is more "mixed" and has all types of frum or even one which is more modern can take away this kind of rebelliousness, and might eventually lead him back closer to your family values. Sometimes the "right" group of friends who can be the good influence will only be found in another type of school. It might be found in the "modern orthodox" teens who are growing in yiddishkeit & not the ones who came from the same type homes as yours. Go with your gut, will letting him go & experience more walks in life elevate his ruchniyus in the long run? Or not? Or the opposite - will keeping him reigned in tight hurt his ruchniyus in the long run?

I can't imagine how tough it feels for you but just try to know your kid and do whats in his best interest for the long run. Sorry I have no sage advice but wish you to find some sort of peace of mind that in the end you will know you made the right decision for your son.

amother

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 10:23 pm

EstiS wrote:

while I agree that she shouldn't push him away with her concerns, and that she needs to find the right way to keep him close, I still take issue with your first comment

Quote:

there are so many paths to Hashem and not a one is THE one ...

For a Chassidish boy from a chassidishe family a chassidishe path IS the right one for him.
Please don't belittle her concerns

We should't belittle her concerns, but I don't see why her son has to be chassidish just because he was raised that way. Don't you ever have doubts whether you are living and practicing Judaism the right way? What if you decided that your sect is not the way, and want to try something else in Yiddishkeit?

Ruchel

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 8:23 am

Let him talk, as long as he behaves well in yeshiva.

If he doesn't, have a very serious talk with him, tell him about the importance of family tradition and hashkafa.

If it doesn't work, let him be what he wants but tell him under your roof this and that doesn't go. If you do not push him too hard he may come back.

You can also say "when you will be independent you will decide, so for now think a lot but don't burn your bridges".

I am (machmir) MO but understand you. I wouldn't want my kids to be Mo lax and go kippa less and not tznius. But at the same time, it's so much better than off the derech (lo aleinu) and we should never worry about anything else Smile

I want to say that if the problem is about learning all day vs working, many chassidim work. The "almost everyone in kolel" is a quite new trend. You may need to tell him he does NOT need to be Mo to work!
In my country you also do not need to be Mo to go to university, but maybe in yours it's different.

Tamiri

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 8:40 am

All the zramim (streams) of Observant Jewry are facing a crisis. Whether it's because the level of spirituality is diminished, or the "outside" pulls so strong, or the emergence of the "me" becoming stronger in each generation, no one knows.
What IS known is that it's futile to fight when one's child is not "performing up to spec". You, dear OP, are in a wonderful place in that your child is a mench and not claiming to be an athiest or worse, and not asking to totally drop out of a Jewish environment.
Show him you love him and respect his feelings as long as they fall within the realm of respectability (you tell him what they are. MO who are Bnai Torah are totally respectable and G-d fearing people). If G-d forbid a child chooses to leave the derech, he must still respect his parents and the rules of the home he lives in. You do not have to finance decisions which go against your grain (non kosher food, irreligious living), but you don't want to cause strife either. Remember the nisyonot of our Avot: perhaps this is your own personal nisayon. Step up to the plate and respond with love.
Many times, after even years, a child who was loved and respected (of course, as a direct result of the love and respect HE/SHE showed) will return to his roots, if not in full then at least partly.

Last edited by Tamiri on Tue, Sep 25 2007, 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

greenfire

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 9:52 am

EstiS wrote:

greenfire wrote:

while I agree that she shouldn't push him away with her concerns, and that she needs to find the right way to keep him close, I still take issue with your first comment

Quote:

there are so many paths to Hashem and not a one is THE one ...

For a Chassidish boy from a chassidishe family a chassidishe path IS the right one for him.
Please don't belittle her concerns

nobody is belittling anybodies concerns ... quite the opposite ... I am showing OP that with unconditional love the child will continue to grow and have respect for what the chassidishe parent believe in even if they do not follow their ways ...

but leave it to Estis ... again with perverting posts to what her mind decides - you have no idea of my life and why I would answer someone in a particular way ... I speak from experience ... so ...

and to the OP I would like to tell you something my rov (a chosuv one too) said to me years ago when I had to take my child out of the cheder and put her into a co-ed different type of schooling - he said there was a chassidishe person who came to their rov crying - "why why did my kid go off the derech" to which his reply was "because you didn't find the right school for her" - my rov continued to say that one can stay in the realm of frumkeit if we change the way they are educated ...
חנוך לנער על פי דרכו
according to his way ...

you said his base nature was good ... he will always have that ...

amother

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 1:38 pm

Motek whats the difference?

Anyways my husband is more wise and a guy afterall so I guess he may make more sense then me.

He says to try for as long as we can to keep him in a yeshiva setting even if it means constant shifting and less rigid then being in a work setting even if my son is not happy about it. Because once he is in the outside world there is no going back.
However even if in theory he doesn't enjoy learning all day just by being in a yeshivas four walls with yeshivish friends is better then exposing him to the secular elements.

My husband has worked on a incentive such as if he does his best this year we will pay for his driving lessons tests etc and no we are not people of meanss where this may be granted.

I just hope we are doing the right thing for now.

Motek

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 1:53 pm

The difference is in how I would respond to you. If you were Lubavitch I'd want the thread to be moved to that section.

Quote:

once he turned bar mitzvah and we sent him away to a good Yeshiva he is going downhill in his yiddishkiet, He has recently told me Modern orthodox is the best of both worlds so why be chassidish.

Do you have any further information to explain what happened? It's hard to respond with advice without it. Why is he going downhill in a good yeshiva? What is at the bottom of your son's outlook? What do his teachers have to say? What does being chasidish in your world consist of?

amother

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 2:07 pm

My heart goes out to you, nothing I will say will help you or make your problem go away. personally from my own experience, I think there is no right or wrong, its your son that will make the ultimate decision. I myself in my teenage years was on the verge of straying from chasidish life , no ones opinion mattered I was young and did what my heart desired, it was my own decision to stay chasidish. I wish you alot of mazel I think its one of the hardest thing a parent can go through. And for most ppl here that wrote as long as hes jewish it doesnt matter if hes chasidish or not, lemme tell you all IT DOES matter, because once you change your lifestyle you just go downhill from then on, there is no stopping you....
again good luck.

Tamiri

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 2:17 pm

[quote="amother"]

My husband has worked on a incentive such as if he does his best this year we will pay for his driving lessons tests etc and no we are not people of meanss where this may be granted.

I just hope we are doing the right thing for now.[/quote]

I beg you, don't go this route. He may say he did his best, but you won't agree - what then? "Doing your best" is so subjective and you are not ACKNOWLEDGING what he's going through. So you want to pay him to live a lie???
If he does what you want out of his own volition - he doesn't need to be rewarded because he's doing the right thing on his own. If he does what you want just to get the prize, he's lying to get it. Is that what you want? Rewards are a very slippery slope.

DefyGravity

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 2:25 pm

Quote:

for most ppl here that wrote as long as hes jewish it doesnt matter if hes chasidish or not, lemme tell you all IT DOES matter, because once you change your lifestyle you just go downhill from then on, there is no stopping you....

Really? I don't think that's true at all. Just because you stray from the chassidish way of life does NOT mean that you will necessarily go downhill.

I definitely agree with Tamiri and disagree with the amother above me.