Help with our Daughter

amother

Coffee

Sun, May 21 2017, 9:00 am

I am asking for advice about my 11 yr old dd, but I'm deliberately keeping some of the details vague. My husband, I, and rav hold that a specific thing is halchikly obligated, something that many of my neighbors and friends don't do. My daughter feels very uncomfortable keeping it because "none of my friends do it" but she acknowledges how important it is to my husband and myself.
Have any of you btdt, how did you handle it.
I don't want to get into what this "chumra" is because I deliberately don't want to get into a debate about whether or not it really is necessary. And in my experience everything gets turned into such a debate. Chalav Yisroel, Yoshon, Secular books, stockings, skirt length, bike riding, driving, whatever.
So really I'm asking how do you encourage an 11 year old to do something that her friends don't do and she doesn't want to do. Especially since she is at that age where she doesn't want to do anything different at all from her friends, down to shampoo brand, bedtime, and what's for supper.

allthingsblue

Sun, May 21 2017, 9:11 am

Personally I would ask a chinuch mentor whether it's worth pushing her in that area. A lot of times, from my personal experience, it's just not worth the fallout.
Be a positive example by doing whatever it is you want her to do with joy, and hopefully as she matures she will decide to do it on her own.

amother

Teal

Sun, May 21 2017, 9:16 am

I've btdt and in retrospect I can see that I was halachically obligated to look out for my dd's mental/emotional well-being. By pushing her to do something she was uncomfortable with, and her friends were not doing, I was eroding the trust bet. us and I was causing her mental/emotional pain.

It is too late now for me, but I've learned my lesson well.

amother

Salmon

Sun, May 21 2017, 9:36 am

Being a Lubavitch family living in a MO community this comes up all the time. We simply do our best to develop our children's pride in who they are and our way of doing things. I acknowledge that it's hard sometimes to be different and praise them for doing the right thing even when it's tempting to do otherwise.

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, May 21 2017, 1:43 pm

I'm going to give a specific example about myself. When I was growing up, I refused to adhere to certain tznius standards that not everyone in our community followed but that my parents wanted me to - these are chumras and not basic halacha (this is important, I believe). When I was 11 or so, My parents finally sat me down and told me what they felt I should be doing, and then told me that they would let me decide for myself to do what I wanted, when I wanted, and completely left me alone about it. For the next 2 years or so, I was still mad that I felt that I 'forced' to do it (even thought they had stopped forcing me), and then at 13-14, I realized that there wasn't anything for me to be angry about, I looked into the halacha and chumros and the reasons behind them on my own and with the help of teachers, and decided fully on my own to keep the chumros that were expected of me (as well as a few extras in that area). Once I decided what I thought was the right thing to do, I stopped feeling so self-conscious about it. To this day, ~20 years later, tznius is something that I feel strongly connected to and I feel very comfortable with my level of dress regardless of what others around me are doing.

So in my opinion, let it go and let her come to it on her own. Yes, there is a chacne that she won't. But there is also a greater chance that if you force her, she will stop on her own doing not only the chumros, but also the halacha.

FranticFrummie

Sun, May 21 2017, 1:45 pm

amother wrote:

Same here. Crying

DD is not keeping ANYTHING now.

Please don't push your child, just set an example, and daven your heart out. Anything more than that is going to drive her OTD.

amother

Coffee

Sun, May 21 2017, 2:09 pm

OP here. So do you think shabbos is optional in your house for your kids, because they may become resentful and stop keeping it. What about kashrus? I'm not being inflammatory, I'm really trying to work this out.
And do I go out and buy say Haagen Daaz if we hold strongly about chalav yisrael? At what point do I get to decide what rules my 11 year old keeps in my own house?

amother

Copper

Sun, May 21 2017, 2:14 pm

amother wrote:

The way you described it, you're not referring to something as black and white as shabbos and kashrus.

And just because you're allowing her to eat chalav stam doesn't mean you need to be the one buying it for her. Without more details it's hard to guide you though....

Iymnok

Sun, May 21 2017, 2:23 pm

Do you know why it's hard for her? Why she is being resistant to it? I believe that everyone is jumping to tznius since it's a bigger pressure to a preteen/teen. Texting on shabbos is assur according to everyone.
I knew a family that let their children have chalav stam before a certain age, I don't remember if it was 6, 9, bar/bas mitzva.
You can sit down with her and talk about halacha, chumra, minhag and haskafa. You should also get a feeling of where she's holding. If living with social pressures is too much for her, maybe it's worth moving so she'll be in an environment more in line with yours. But be careful, a move can tip an unsteady child over too.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, May 21 2017, 2:31 pm

amother wrote:

It's important to acknowledge nuance. Keeping shabbos is a d'oraissa. Chalav Yisroel in America is not halacha though many people choose to be machmir, and there are other equally valid opinions. Even if you hold that this is halacha, there is room for leniency.

You have to decide what is more important to you - winning the battle today, or losing the war tomorrow. Even though you set the rules, it's important to respect your 11 year old child and be considerate of her feelings and frustration. She's a child today, but she'll be an independent adult soon enough.

Speaking from personal experience, having something forced on you is counterproductive. And remember that for an 11 year old child, one of the most important things in the world is fitting in. You have a much better chance of her keeping whatever you want her to keep if she doesn't associate it with resentment and discomfort.

amother

Plum

Sun, May 21 2017, 2:33 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Same here. Crying

DD is not keeping ANYTHING now.

Please don't push your child, just set an example, and daven your heart out. Anything more than that is going to drive her OTD.

your pist makes my heart bleed. im so sorry for you, it must be very painful to be in this situation.

I love your idea about askind HKB´´H for help. In my opinion thats the most effective chinuch method.

crust

Sun, May 21 2017, 2:47 pm

amother wrote:

OP here. So do you think shabbos is optional in your house for your kids, because they may become resentful and stop keeping it.
At what point do I get to decide what rules my 11 year old keeps in my own house?

Your questions are pretty delicate. I think what youre going through is enough. You don't need the added pain of having to explain yourself to each well meaning poster.

I commend you for consulting with a Rav. I am not underestimating his capacity but Question is; is he experienced with OTD? Like has he had a child of his own like this or was successfull with guiding other parents?
If he's not particularly experienced in this field it is crucial for you to have someone else guide you.
Ouch. I feel your pain. Take the courage to save your child your family and yourself. Much hatzlucha

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, May 21 2017, 2:51 pm

As I posted earlier, my parents let me make my own decisions about chumros, not on things that were basic halacha (and if you are unsure where to draw the line, ask a rabbi). My parents also differentiated between halachas/chumras that only directed affected me (e.g. tznius) and halachas/chumras that directly affected them as well (e.g., bringing something of a lower kashrut standard which they considered unacceptable into our kitchen).

My parents explained that I could be responsible for my own actions regarding chumras that affected me alone (e.g. tznius), but that I could not 'ruin' someone else in the household's ability to keep their own chumras (e.g., don't bring things with an unacceptable hechsher into the kitchen, because they are more careful about the kashrus and about having things with lesser kashrus on the same surfaces).

I think these guidelines are helpful.

amother

Amethyst

Sun, May 21 2017, 2:56 pm

*Build a sense of pride in your family 's different way. Teach your children that your family is different and they should be proud of being different.

*Validate her feelings in that you understand that right now being the same as her friends is very important to her but you hope that one day upholding your family's minhagim will be more important than being the same.

*In general talk about when its good to go with the flow and be the same and when its not good. Talk about peer pressure for good things and for bad things.

*Find her a friend who holds the same as you so she has someone to be the same as.