How would you handle this sort of behavior?

amother

Powderblue

Sun, May 21 2017, 6:45 am

I've btdt.

The computer broke completely. Costed me close to $200 to repair it and even then not all of it could be repaired.

You're asking wwyd, so I can say what I did.

I held her hands and said, ''my dear daughter, I can see how upsetting this is to you. Thank you for letting me know how angry you are right now. I understand. Next time you're angry, would you be willing to let me know another way?''

And I'd ask if she had any ideas for ''other ways'' she can let me know she's angry/upset.

All of this, done with utmost calm. Truthfully, it's ''only'' a computer. Having such a talk in a calm manner, devoid of any anger, can be a very powerful learning experience for a child. I'd consider the broken laptop a ''therapy expense''.

Hugs to you. These are difficult/stressful years. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Is there physical affection bet. the two of you?

amother

Oak

Sun, May 21 2017, 7:51 am

Powderblue, while I'm with you on the purposefulness of the convo and keeping out the anger, I'm not OK with not addressing how problematic the action was. It's not about whether or not the computer broke. A child this age is old enough to know that a computer is valuable financially, and not easily replaceable. That means her rage overcame her, which means she could also likely easily lash out at a person or at an object that would hit and hurt a person.

So after she (and I) calmed down, I would address the rage and action, and I would impose a meaningful consequence, and I would explain why. I would then explain future consequences for dangerously using ones body, and I would encourage her to tell me when she conquered her urge and reward her for each victory, and for whenever she uses her words.

BTW, with dh, the level of consequence WOULD depend on the level of damage. He wants the kids to understand that that is what happens in real life.

imasinger

Sun, May 21 2017, 6:45 pm

Ouch, poor computer!

Poor you.

And poor DD. She must feel awful.

Does your DD have other times when she loses control of herself like that? How to respond depends on the deeper issues.

Maybe she needs overall help, evaluation for impulsivity and anger management.

Maybe there is something going on that is affecting her such that her self control is weak because there is something important bothering her that needs to be addressed.

And maybe she just had a bad moment on a bad day.

The first thing to do is figure out the big picture, because that will factor into what consequences you impose.

When my DS at that age impulsively damaged something big, I charged him 10% of the actual cost, and held him responsible for paying that much out of allowance and chores. And he had extra chores to do every week before free play, until it was paid off for his part.

We also spent time looking into and responding to the underlying issue, which, with him, was ADHD. Counseling, and clearly posted rules and consequences helped.

marina

Sun, May 21 2017, 7:53 pm

It depends on whether my kid was an average 9 year old or had issues.

If she had issues, I would tailor my response carefully.

If she was a regular kid, I would probably yell: WHAT ARE YOU DOING and then yell GO TO YOUR ROOM UNTIL I FIGURE OUT WHAT YOUR CONSEQUENCE WILL BE. And then I would calm down and probably punish her by not letting her use the computer at all for X number of days and she would also have to write an I'mSorry/What Have I Learned letter.

If it broke, I'd prob do the same, but have the X number of days be longer b/c the computer just doesn't exist and it will take time to buy etc.

marina

Sun, May 21 2017, 7:59 pm

amother wrote:

To those who are advocating for ''consequences'':

I'm truly curious what purpose the consequences serve for you or your child and my follow up question will be, ''Can the same purpose be achieved via other means?''

I'm only asking because the notion of consequences is foreign to me and just feels ''off'' to me.

We teach our kids consequences because this (1) helps control /shape their behavior and (2) prepares them for the real world.

If I hold my kid's hands and explain how I understand her feelings after she tosses the computer off the table, there's a good chance that the next time my kid wants some individualized attention and an understanding mommy, she will push something else off the table. In this way, I risk encouraging the very behavior I am seeking to end.

Also, when my child is a teen and smashes her teacher's car with a crowbar, no one will be holding her hands and expressing how they understand her anger. They will just call the police. So she needs to know that bad things will happen if she can't control her anger.

amother

Linen

Sun, May 21 2017, 8:00 pm

amother wrote:

consequence is a punishment. But instead of a random punishment it should be a result of the action. Many times its in the creativity of the wording.
Natural consequences are consequences that naturally happen in the world and don't need a parent to add on.
But sometimes parents create consequences were no natural consequence exists
But consequences are also not warnings or threats. They happen.

Don't clean up toys - moommy cleaned them up for a few days
Didn't behave in the store - the next time I go you can't come along
Broke a computer - lose computer privileges
etc.

marina

Sun, May 21 2017, 8:02 pm

amother wrote:

Also, I am totally not a fan of "your feelings are always valid." People's feelings are not always valid and being angry is sometimes something you need to stop. Not let other people know about in different ways. Control your anger and shut it down. Talking and expressing and validating often doesn't help with that.

amother

Coffee

Sun, May 21 2017, 8:03 pm

Thanks for the responses.

This actually happened with my DH this morning; I was still sleeping. Between the two of us, DH is usually the calm one in these situations but he exploded with DD today. He gets funny about his computers and gadgets.

DD is a very sweet, affectionate, charming child. But if she doesn't get her way - watch out. Strong willed and explosive temper. But never has she done anything destructive like this.

I thought the consequence, since she showed she does not treat the computer with respect, should be that she can't use it for at least a week. DH, once he had calmed down, only put if off limits for today. I thought that was awfully lenient, but I wasn't going to undo what he said, especially as I was not present at the time of the incident.

I am concerned with the escalating rage. Usually when a kid is angry, they are kind of grumpy/ edgy all the time. My other daughter is like that. She can be sulky and moody for days. But this DD, she's really a very happy kid 99% of the time. She has lots of friends, does well in school, she's talented. It's just that when she doesn't get her way - total meltdown, and now I see it elevate to destructive behavior. I am forever telling her to use her words, to just talk about her feelings and maybe we can work something out but that I will not negotiate anything with her when she's acting out. It doesn't help.

What can I do?

ETA: The computer didn't break, thankfully. I was simply wondering if that would change the way you'd deal with it, since really the child's actions are the same regardless of the outcome (broken or not broken).

marina

Sun, May 21 2017, 8:16 pm

amother wrote:

There are a few things you can try:

1. The most important is role modeling. Get into the habit of narrating your inner life when you feel yourself getting frustrated and modeling how to calm down. Like this: This is very annoying to me but I can handle it... I am very angry now so I need to breathe in and out in and out.... I had a bad day so I will go have some tea in my room to relax.

This is the best way for kids to learn how to handle anger well.

2. You should also create a calm-down list with her. When she is upset, she should have a list of activities (not fun things) she can do to calm down. Examples: read a book, eat cheerios, listen to music, draw, walk around the block, etc. She should come up with these ideas with your help and they should be written on a list, maybe with pics and hung up in her room. At some point, though, fyi, she will get angry and tear it down, that's ok.

3. Teach her to change her thoughts. This is a little bit like the first one, but you can do it more explicitly. Role play before events that may trigger her. Like: If I let you and your sister use the computer, what are you going to say to yourself if she doesn't take turns like she's supposed to? How are you going to think to help you keep calm? ( Answers: This is annoying but I can handle it. I can distract myself while she finishes. I can think about something I'm looking forward to. I can walk away. etc)

4. Give consequences for destructive behavior, punishments that hopefully relate to the misbehavior. As much as possible, try to be very calm as much as you can when actually giving the consequence. That way, she can only focus on the consequence and why she got it and it leaves less room for her to focus on the mean mom who is yelling at her and hates her etc.

Also, there are tons of kids books and activity books for these.

amother

Coffee

Sun, May 21 2017, 8:31 pm

Thanks, Marina. That's very helpful.

1 and 2 seem easy enough to do and I think will go a long way. 3 seems a bit trickier.

4 is a struggle at times. I am totally all about natural consequences and consequences that are directly related to the offense. But this child is tough. She tends to react with "I don't care" and it gets very tempting to come up with something else that will make her care - even if it has nothing to do with anything. (Example: I tell her the cookies are to serve on shabbos, don't eat any. She eats one anyhow. I tell her since she took one now without permission, no dessert this shabbos. She says, "So? I don't care." So then I'll say, "and no friends over.") I know it's not fair but her cool exterior in the face of punishment sometimes gets to me.

marina

Sun, May 21 2017, 9:31 pm

amother wrote:

1st- that's what we all do- try to be cool in the face of bad things. If my boss fires me tomorrow, I will put on a good face and say hey, man, your loss. Chances are that she does actually care.

2nd- Even if she doesn't care, it doesn't matter. The point of a punishment is not necessarily to make it hurt. The point of a punishment is sometimes just to show that you're getting called out for not following expected behavioral norms. If you don't care about the particular punishment, just the fact that there is one, highlights for you that you missed the expectation.

I see speeding tickets as an ideal analogy for punishment. As the police officer, you try to be pleasant or matter of fact, you don't add on anything if the driver doesn't care, you are calm and this is just another day on the job.

3rd- I would be very careful to avoid using a hammer to kill a fly. Use the smallest punishment enough to get the message across, the message being that "you violated our behavioral expectations." If she eats one cookie, there's no dessert that night and that's it. Tomorrow is a brand new day. If you pile it on ( no friends ) it takes away the incentive to behave well for the rest of shabbos. It's like : why should I bother behaving, they can't do anything more to me.

Computer, obv, I would not give just one day for ( although it's fine that your DH did and it's appropriate that you don't overrule). I would give a few days consequence for that, but no more.

marina

Sun, May 21 2017, 9:36 pm

My 13yr old dropped her phone in the winter and broke it. This was after months of me telling her to always use the case and that I am not paying for a new one if this breaks.

So she was very sad for a few weeks and then I said we could go halfsies. Then she couldn't get any babysitting jobs and decided to sell her nail polishes and body lotions on ebay. I helped her list them and I paid my friend to secretly buy them and then give them away to some other kid for free. In short, I did end up paying for a new phone, but the loss of the phone for a month ( while all this was happening) and having to sell her stuff made an impact on my child and I decided that impact was enough to help her remember this lesson for next time.

She still doesn't know that I paid to buy her stuff lol.