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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling -> Homeschooling
My frum kids are in public school!
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ChanahR




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 23 2017, 11:34 am
I have a problem. All 5 of my children have only ever attended frum schools until now. They each had such a horrid experience at the school last year that they did not want to return. The education was not great anyway, but that's actually not the most important thing, and I think all of us know why we put our kids in Jewish schools. So, this last school year, I had my kids do online school at home with me. It was a disaster because the curriculum was much more rigorous and was an all day l'emudei chol curriculum. There wasn't any time left in the day to do l'emudie kodesh, and their oppositional behavior drained me emotionally and physically. My daughter's teacher sent her out of the classroom everytime she refused to do her work, not understanding that she was struggling with the learning. So she spent the year in the hallway. No wonder she doesn't want to go back. My son quite possibly has dyslexia which went un-noticed, and he is 2 grades behind in literacy. They have both made leaps of improvements this year, but are still slightly behind grade level and need supports. The new principal has told me that I am required to pay for a tutor outside school, and that they have to asses whether or not they are academically ready to be accepted back into the frum school this next year. I have never in my travels heard of a school accepting frum children only under certain conditions. I don't work, and my husband is a public school teacher. We are currently 6 in the home, and we live on a public school teacher salary. Do the math. We're broke.

So, my children don't want to go back to the frum school, we can't afford the conditions they've placed on us, and we can't afford for me not to return to work. My only option is public school. The kids don't mind, but I'm having a lot of anxiety over it. I don't know what I'll do for l'emudei kodesh learning, and my son will be bar mitzvah in november. Any advice or support would be fantastic.

Thank you.
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chayamiriam




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 23 2017, 11:42 am
There are tons of kids in public school receiving services that are just not available or unaffordable in public school. My own granddaughters are in a fantastic public school and are doing amazing scholastically. They have a teacher twice a week doing Hebrew subjects. It's not what I envisioned for my kids but they are very very happy and thriving in their school!
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amother
Jetblack


 

Post Tue, May 23 2017, 11:52 am
chayamiriam wrote:
There are tons of kids in public school receiving services that are just not available or unaffordable in public school. My own granddaughters are in a fantastic public school and are doing amazing scholastically. They have a teacher twice a week doing Hebrew subjects. It's not what I envisioned for my kids but they are very very happy and thriving in their school!


Thanks for sharing that. There are many who need to hear that.
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Miri7




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 23 2017, 12:05 pm
My dear friends kids had similar experiences in frum schools and are blossoming in public schools. I think her only regret is that she didn't move them sooner
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TwinsMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 23 2017, 12:10 pm
Same here. I started putting my kids in public due to special needs but for various reasons might keep them both out of the Jewish schools long past when I thought they might make a switch. My daughter might be ready to handle just having a 1:1 aide in a typical Jewish school soon due to great progress but I'm sad about what we might leave behind. On the other hand I'm not sure I want exposure to prom and sports teams being the ikkar in high school. Still mulling it over. For fifth she will stay in public but we are talking about moving her for sixth. My son likely won't ever go to a Jewish school because he needs the supports so much more.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 23 2017, 12:11 pm
ChanahR wrote:
I have never in my travels heard of a school accepting frum children only under certain conditions.


I have actually heard this many times. I've heard of frum schools accepting a child only if they are on certain medications, only with a shadow, only with tutoring, etc....basically, if the school cannot accommodate the child as-is, they will set conditions under which they can accommodate the child.

I have a relative whose special-needs (learning and behavioral disabilities) child is in public school, as the only Jewish school that was willing to accept him set forth tuition conditions in excess of 30K annually, and the family has no way to afford that. The child is young and doing well in his public school class, and they supplement that with a Jewish Sunday program and various home learning. They really wish they had a frum program for him - it's painful to the parents that at present, they don't have a better option.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 23 2017, 12:28 pm
ChanahR wrote:
I have a problem. All 5 of my children have only ever attended frum schools until now. They each had such a horrid experience at the school last year that they did not want to return. The education was not great anyway, but that's actually not the most important thing, and I think all of us know why we put our kids in Jewish schools. So, this last school year, I had my kids do online school at home with me. It was a disaster because the curriculum was much more rigorous and was an all day l'emudei chol curriculum. There wasn't any time left in the day to do l'emudie kodesh, and their oppositional behavior drained me emotionally and physically. My daughter's teacher sent her out of the classroom everytime she refused to do her work, not understanding that she was struggling with the learning. So she spent the year in the hallway. No wonder she doesn't want to go back. My son quite possibly has dyslexia which went un-noticed, and he is 2 grades behind in literacy. They have both made leaps of improvements this year, but are still slightly behind grade level and need supports. The new principal has told me that I am required to pay for a tutor outside school, and that they have to asses whether or not they are academically ready to be accepted back into the frum school this next year. I have never in my travels heard of a school accepting frum children only under certain conditions. I don't work, and my husband is a public school teacher. We are currently 6 in the home, and we live on a public school teacher salary. Do the math. We're broke.

So, my children don't want to go back to the frum school, we can't afford the conditions they've placed on us, and we can't afford for me not to return to work. My only option is public school. The kids don't mind, but I'm having a lot of anxiety over it. I don't know what I'll do for l'emudei kodesh learning, and my son will be bar mitzvah in november. Any advice or support would be fantastic.

Thank you.


I'm not sure I understand what's going on.

(1) You have 5 kids, all of whom attended day school until the end of the 2015- 2016 academic year? And they were all unhappy?

(2) For 2016-2017, you home schooled? So what teacher was sending your DD out of the "classroom"? This is where I'm confused.

(3) You want them to return to the school they attended in 2015-2016, but the school is requiring supports in order to accept them.

IMNSHO, if your children, or some of them, have needs that the local day school cannot meet -- and the day school seems to believe that may be the case -- then you should absolutely consider public school. You can probably hire a limudei kodesh tutor for less than you would pay the day school.

You absolutely need to meet with the school to discuss your expectations and theirs.
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icebreaker




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 23 2017, 2:08 pm
My kids are in public school as well. They've been in public school since Pre-K so it's probably different from yours coming from a Jewish school to public one. They get supplemental Jewish studies 3x a week from a tutor from Chabad (or we all go the Chabad house). My son wears his kippah and has never been made fun of or bullied or anything. My eldest daughter wears skirts exclusively while my middle daughter mixes it up between pants and skirts. The teachers and staff at my children's school are great! My kids say a lot of people are actually very interested about Judaism and ask them questions all the time and believe all Jews look like the Chassidim. My son has been asked a lot where are his side curls LOL
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animeme




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 23 2017, 2:15 pm
I would talk to the day school your kids went to about getting your bar mitzvah aged son onto the bar mitzvah list for the class he was in. This is often done with kids who need to be outside the frum school system because of learning needs. He will get invited to the year's bar mitzvahs, which will help him stay connected to the boys and the bar mitzvah olam. And of course you will invite all the boys to yours.

I would also ask and look around for a really good bar mitzvah rebbe (now) to start working with him on how he will approach it (will he lein? Learn a topic of interest? Do a chesed project?) He also needs to be taught hilchos tefillin (please consider a visit to a sofer who will do a hands on/visual with him to show him what's in the tefillin, etc.) Many rebbes are free in the afternoons, and could work with ds when he gets back from yhe earlier-dismissing public school.
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chayamiriam




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 23 2017, 4:30 pm
Its also very hard to remove them from public school and into yeshiva. The amount of work they have to do to catch up to their peers is very difficult. I think if they values at home are strong high school will not be such a problem. Drugs and alcohol are everywhere so maybe its not proms its something else. I find that the teachers in a good public school are most accommodating and very professional. My granddaughters have since both moved from special ed classes into regulars classrooms and are doing extremely well. They both still have all the supports that they need. It made them into such confident self assured little people!!
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amother
Olive


 

Post Tue, May 23 2017, 10:18 pm
Im reading so many times on this board how amazing PS Is, please clarify? R there really no. Problems? I'm getting convinced...
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icebreaker




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 23 2017, 11:15 pm
I wouldn't say that there are no problems. Every school has its problems or issues. I personally just don't think it's bad like a lot of frum people believe it is. Of course, public schools greatly vary. A public school in the south Bronx is probably extremely different from a public school on the Upper East Side. Not all public schools are made equally (which is the unfortunate truth). So you'd definitely have to take into account a school and how it grades. But in general, for me personally, I've found a lot of support. My kids are doing great and we're pretty happy. Of course, I can only speak for myself and there may be people who've had completely different experiences from me.

amother wrote:
Im reading so many times on this board how amazing PS Is, please clarify? R there really no. Problems? I'm getting convinced...
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groisamomma




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 23 2017, 11:28 pm
amother wrote:
Im reading so many times on this board how amazing PS Is, please clarify? R there really no. Problems? I'm getting convinced...


It depends on the individual school. I would never, ever encourage a Jewish parent to put their child into the public middle school where I teach but there are others whose children are in better public school environments and say it isn't that bad.
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amother
Burgundy


 

Post Tue, May 23 2017, 11:43 pm
Your right about diffrent schools having diffrent problems. I wouldn't say the same thing about a public school in the Bronx as a public school in the suburbs, where the people pay tons of taxes and the schools are like prep schools. My granddaughters are in Long Island the public schools in their district are amazing and tops in the country. They go to a small school where the teachers are wonderful and problems are taken care of quickly. All children have the supports they need. There are authors and scientists that come to talk to the children monthly and smart boards and IPADS in every classroom. The kids are learning tons and are so confident about themselves. They get tutoring in Hebrew and are reading nicely. They all know to look for kosher symbols before eating anything and their teachers are very careful to give them only the snack that is sent in by their parents. Its not perfect and I wish that their Hebrew studies were more intense but I have to say that they are so much less stressed then their parents were in Yeshiva when they were going through school, the learning was so much more intense and fast paced and learning differences were not paid much attention. Its not a debate on what's better I wish that every Jewish child would be able to go to yeshiva but if that's not happening choosing the right public school maybe a possible solution. Its far better then what is believed by most people.
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ChanahR




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 24 2017, 12:15 am
It does sound confusing. I didn't want to make my post longer than it needed to be. My oldest is 20 years old. She had many bad experiences with more than one Jewish school. She is on the autism spectrum. The next 3 were in the Jewish school for the 2015-2016 school year and that is the last year they attended. My 5 year old just started at said school for 2016-2017 school year while I home schooled the middle 2. My 12 year old son spent this year in public school because of his special needs that I couldn't handle at home. So the middle 2, I wanted to put back into the school for next year, but they do not want to return and the school is telling me that before they can asses their learning needs, they cannot accept them into the school. They wanted my kids to sit for standardized tests with the other students even after I sent them report cards and standardized tests from the online school they attended this year. It took 1.5 months for the Rabbi to respond to my most important question which was whether or not he had the idea of retention, which I am against. He said in his email: "(School name) needs to be assured that they will thrive at (school name) in order to readmit them. Otherwise, what is the point of their attendance?" I had to point out to him that the point of attendance is simply that they have Jewish neshamas that won't thrive if they are not in a Jewish school. This was 6 days ago and he has not responded. Am I overthinking this? Will their Jewish neshamas dwindle as they continue to exist in public school? My husband doesn't even want them at the Jewish school. The kids don't want to go back. I'm the only one who feels this situation as a matter of spiritual survival. Today my son told me his continuation ceremony is on June 1st. That's Shavuous and he cannot go. His initial response was to be resentful and angry at yiddishkeit. It's already starting and I am alone in this war. :'(

SixOfWands wrote:
I'm not sure I understand what's going on.

(1) You have 5 kids, all of whom attended day school until the end of the 2015- 2016 academic year? And they were all unhappy?

(2) For 2016-2017, you home schooled? So what teacher was sending your DD out of the "classroom"? This is where I'm confused.

(3) You want them to return to the school they attended in 2015-2016, but the school is requiring supports in order to accept them.

IMNSHO, if your children, or some of them, have needs that the local day school cannot meet -- and the day school seems to believe that may be the case -- then you should absolutely consider public school. You can probably hire a limudei kodesh tutor for less than you would pay the day school.

You absolutely need to meet with the school to discuss your expectations and theirs.
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Wed, May 24 2017, 12:32 am
Must watch!!
https://youtu.be/93mToRUHM7U

What’s the current situation of intermarriage & assimilation amongst the Jewish People today?
Rabbi Yehudah Silver in an alarming clip, concerning the impact of assimilation on the future of the Jewish Nation.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 24 2017, 3:43 am
As other posters have said:

It depends on the kid.
It depends on the frum school.
It depends on the public school.

No one can say that any situation is right for your family without knowing every tiny detail.

All you can do is daven for clarity and wisdom. With Hashem's help, you should find the right solution for all of your kids to thrive. Hug
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rachel0615




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 24 2017, 7:00 am
I have no advice but just wanted to tell you how sorry I feel that you are facing this. As a mother you have a responsibility to help your child turn into a self sufficient, succesful, confident adult which can only happy if the child has successful schooling. As a frum mom, you have a responsibility to pass on the beauty of Torah and our mesora. When those two responsibilities seem contradictory because of the situation you are in as you described, my hearts hurts for what you must be feeling.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 24 2017, 7:02 am
amother wrote:
Must watch!!
https://youtu.be/93mToRUHM7U

What’s the current situation of intermarriage & assimilation amongst the Jewish People today?
Rabbi Yehudah Silver in an alarming clip, concerning the impact of assimilation on the future of the Jewish Nation.


May we assume that you are volunteering to tutor all of her kids? If not, are you offering to pay for said tutoring?
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Wed, May 24 2017, 7:22 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
May we assume that you are volunteering to tutor all of her kids? If not, are you offering to pay for said tutoring?


Nope I can't fund her tuition but I want to bring awareness to a Very Sad reality!!
There is more assimilated Jews than jews killed in the holocaust.
We have to try as best as we can to save Jewish Neshamot.
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