S/O school fund for simchos?

farm

Thu, May 25 2017, 3:30 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Thank you. I can't like your post enough. And say your job doesn't pay enough for all of these 'necessities' and you still want them? What's wrong with stocking shelves at Target nights to earn the money to pay for them?

No one is saying that. A school decides to designate a fund to give teachers a cash gift in honor of a bar mitzva or chasuna. You can donate to that fund or not. No one is forcing anyone to donate. And no one is claiming a catered shalom zachar is a necessity nor demanding money to pay for it.

happybeingamom

Thu, May 25 2017, 5:51 pm

amother wrote:

Argument 1 - Let teachers live off their salaries - but teachers aren't really paid enough to live

Argument 2 - Let them find another job that pays better- No one wants to become teachers because their salaries aren't high enough

Argument 3 - My kids teachers are horrible, no one wants to be teachers because salaries are so low - raise teacher's salaries and you will get a better pool of teachers

Argument 4 - my kids school just raised my tuition, I can't afford it, they pay teachers way too much...

No one will ever win.

(Bar mitzva expenses typically include bar mitzva lessons, tefillin, new suit, hat (or 2), - all expenses besides a bar mitzva kiddish - but you are right - sons of teachers don't really deserve to look put together or have a nice party - they should just be happy that they have food on the table)

Liking this was not enough.

Just for the record (my DH is not in chinuch)

I only made a kiddush and a seudah for the family. They both took place in my house and I did a lot of the baking and cooking myself. No lessons as DH taught our son himself. I spent way over $5,000 on Bar mitzvah expenses. A mehudar Teffilin alone cost over 2K.

It is a shame that some people can't fargin a mechanech or mechaneches a living wage.

amother

Cyan

Thu, May 25 2017, 7:54 pm

It's not that I can't forgive a "living wage" but when we start propping up one group, the rest need to compensate because if the Rebbi's son gets a party (because they got a bonus 5,000) then my son will feel like a nerd with just a kiddush at shul because I can't afford more with tuition and other basic needs. Who will donate to the "plain old struggling family who isn't in chinuch"?
With all the perks given to chinuch- I would have been better off with a paltry teachers salary- discounts at the grocery, special deals pesach time, tuition discount if my kids go to that school, simcha bonuses, MM with cash, tips multiple times a year.... (I know not all teachers get all of these, but if I just got 1 or 2 of them I would be much better off). We keep hearing "show hakaras hatov" but it gets excessive hearing it for every new "must give"...

And yes, it is donated outside of school funds but charity isn't from nowhere. If I give to this, I can't give to that. I know someone who was out of a job and wasn't given a real discount... No mercy for one year??

Oh, and I saw the 990s of some schools- teachers on there were making 80,000 a year and up without these perks. Yes, it was listing top salaried teachers beyond administration but still. Not all teachers are making pennies. And 80 or 90,000 is not even close to minimum wage levels- it is way above that!! (Yeshivish schools, not MO where salaries are typically higher).

farm

Fri, May 26 2017, 3:11 pm

amother wrote:

j
So go teach. There are ads for yeshivas seeking teachers every single week.

amother

Seafoam

Fri, May 26 2017, 3:33 pm

amother wrote:

You seem to forget there is more to bar mitzvah expenses then a kiddush.

I would assume the schools with simcha funds charge very low institution and don't pay their teachers top dollars at all (at least in our school's case)
I think a complaint of teachers making 80K + salaries and getting the simcha fund isn't really appropriate here.

amother

Seafoam

Fri, May 26 2017, 4:24 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I do think the OP has a point, though I don't think it's limited to Simcha funds for Rabbeim. Alot of Simcha funds - like Hachnosas Kallah organizations and such - have raised the standard in our communities for Simchas in general.

I do agree with you.
But many things get perks
- BMG gives out lots of vouchers - including sheitel and yom tov savings for shoes, suits, clothing. Savings families desperately need.
- Moadim l'simcha is savings for families in klei kodesh.

Without some of these families would really not having clothing to wear or food to eat. But some of it is extravagant.

I was talking a mother of a bunch of kids who got the BMG voucher. She went in there and she said when she got the total with the voucher it was still an insane amount so she left the shoes there and went to pay less instead.
Or some people who got they Sary voucher felt compelled to buy even if they didn't need or afford the 500.
Or families getting vouchers for free shoes at the most expensive stores twice a year and then when their kids grow up they think you must have such such shoes and don't realize it isn't really within their budget
Having a hachanasa kallah that gives everything down to the minute detail - which makes every kallah feel that you can't get married without.

I agree - but I feel giving a rebbe enough money to buy his son teffilin, suit, hat and make a decent kiddush isn't extravagant. I don't think 5K is enough to really raise standards any higher then typical.

amother

Cyan

Fri, May 26 2017, 7:39 pm

amother wrote:

It's usually the opposite actually. Schools where the rebbeim are making 80k have these funds because they are in more affluent communities. And people with money donate and fargin cuz it's easy to fargin when you're doing well. Poorer communities have low salaries for rebbeim and no fund.

The problem is that no community is 100% affluent. We live in mixed communities as we all have to be in walking distance to shuls, close enough to drive to schools, markets and other necessities of frum life. Growing up I had classmates with full time help, go to Israel for Sukkos and always go to programs for Pesach. plus sleep away camp and a summer vacation when camp ends. And there were classmates that had 4 kids to a small room and never went farther than the park on vacation. I have people who go to my shul with 11 kids in a 3 bedroom apartment and others who drive a brand new Lexus and have their names on a bunch of buildings in the community.
So instead of having everyone just "do their own thing with what they can afford" you are having those in one protected class get help even if they may not be poor (their spouse might be a lawyer, accountant or doctor so combined salaries are decent). But even if they are in poverty, you help them get extras while the middle class gets squeezed tighter- with added peer pressure as even those "with less" or lower salaries are doing technically better with all these tax free gifts.
It is artificially inflating the communities standards so now everyone must do better. As the really rich say "if chinuch family can do X, I must now do X+Y".

amother

Amber

Sat, May 27 2017, 3:40 pm

amother wrote:

It is artificially inflating the communities standards so now everyone must do better. As the really rich say "if chinuch family can do X, I must now do X+Y".

The other way to look at it is- those who have that drive that they have to outdo the lifestyles of those who are perceived as poorer than them, are the ones being ridiculous. And if anything, they are the ones who keep raising the bar.

I'm not trying to promote a communist lifestyle. But, the notion that the rich HAVE to prove that they are wealthy by going all out even more is silly too.

amother

Seafoam

Sun, May 28 2017, 10:20 am

Are chinuch families who get the perk really making such extravagant affairs that they are raising the bar for simchos? That hasn't been my personal experience.

There was a very wealthy family in town that their daughter was the first to get married from thh class, for technical reasons they made the wedding in the cheapest possible hall. They got so many calls from classmates parents thanking them for not making the bar so high - I know the ba'ali simcha was touched and has tried to do the same with all his other children. I don't think the rich have to make bigger parties - it just sets the pressure on everyone.

amother

Ivory

Sun, May 28 2017, 10:50 am

The idea that chinuch families have to be poor and make the simplest simchos is ridiculous. Dh is in chinuch and I am working fulltime in a non chinuch job. I dont consider myself any worse off than half my neighbors. In fact I always say if you are not going to be really wealthy may as well be in chinuch, we get nice tuition discounts for the boys, parsonage and the girls tuition goes straight to to their.schools pretax. And before you all attack me no we are not on any gov programs.

DrMom

Sun, May 28 2017, 10:58 am

amother wrote:

Why are people so up in arms about this? So a school offers a perk to their rebbeim - people who donate towards the fund know where its going and are happy to give their money to that fund.

Do you get nervous from every perk every office offers?

This was my reaction too. I don't see why this is such a big deal.

amother

Cyan

Sun, May 28 2017, 11:09 am

amother wrote:

No attacking needed. You did the smart thing- all chinuch benefits plus an income...
And that's my point. Having a fund "to help our poor teachers" doesn't make sense as they make (with all the benefits) more than other families.
I don't think any one group needs to be poor and make simple simchos but when you fundraise for our "underpaid staff" and "give nice gifts to our staff" and then we hear about teachers who want tips and claim they don't get enough bonuses....

And no one is helping the working non chinuch families. People who might need the help more than chinuch families!! High tuition, no benefits, no automatic bonuses or people collecting for your tips....

amother

Mistyrose

Sun, May 28 2017, 11:28 am

amother wrote:

Do you know the responsibility teachers carry? They deserve it. I would not want to be a teacher so if they are willing and are doing a great job we need to keep them and that is one way to do it. If your kids have bad teachers then understand why you wouldn't be too happy to give