your neshama begged for this....

amother

Ecru

Thu, May 25 2017, 3:29 am

Really? I mean, we hear this all the time, and sometimes it makes you feel better if you are going through a rough patch.

But- does anyone know the source for this idea?

(btw I would have put this under Judaism but you can't be anonymous there. Why not?)

crust

Thu, May 25 2017, 7:33 am

amother wrote:

(oh - ecru again?

Good morning Mrs. Ecru!
Are you Mrs ecru from the other thread?

This is not an answer for a person who's suffering.
To Whoever told this to you;
Rolling Eyes

That person could not handle your pain so he/she found a pat answer and thought he/she is being mystical.

For myself; I don't know what my neshuma was begging for back there. There are definitely few things I'd not exactly 'beg for' with my human capacity. Wink

mommy3b2c

Thu, May 25 2017, 7:39 am

I have no idea where you "hear this all the time." I have never heard this. It sounds like an incredibly stupid thing to say. Maybe your hanging out with the wrong people.

amother

Linen

Thu, May 25 2017, 7:40 am

I'm happy to say I've never heard this revolting expression. I don't see how anyone could possibly think it's a nechama, and IMHO it's a great chutzpah to say this to anyone.

amother

Ecru

Thu, May 25 2017, 7:45 am

Hello Crust

(I'm wondering- pizza crust? pie crust? toast crust? the delicious crust you get on a piece of Yomtov meat if you bake it covered and then take off the cover and give it 10 minutes on really high heat right at the very end? (translation - your name is interesting, how did you come up with it???))

Look I dunno, for me sometimes it's a good answer when I'm having a bad day (your neshama begged for it, in case you forgot what I was talking about with that crusty digression).

But I was more wondering whether there is an original source for this idea, because if so, I could find it and try and learn it.

Thanks for your reply.

amother

Ecru

Thu, May 25 2017, 7:51 am

To the other people who replied-

I'm pretty sure the first time I read that expression was many many years ago, and it was a chapter title in one of Miriam Adahan's books. But I'm wondering where she got it from.

The idea that the biggest challenges are actually your EXACT and necessary point of tikkkun in this world are often a comfort for me, because they give purpose to (I don't want to say suffering) umm ..... difficulties.

(Waiting for Pink Fridge to recommend Man's Search for Meaning (which I haven't read yet)). Wink

crust

Thu, May 25 2017, 8:06 am

amother wrote:

lol! anything goes!! As long As I get a peice.

amother wrote:

(translation - your name is interesting, how did you come up with it???))

I can't afford to share trade secrets.

amother wrote:

Look I dunno, for me sometimes it's a good answer when I'm having a bad day (your neshama begged for it, in case you forgot what I was talking about with that crusty digression).

But I was more wondering whether there is an original source for this idea, because if so, I could find it and try and learn it.

Thanks for your reply.

There's definitely a source to it. I'll come back to post if I find it.
Meanwhile, I hope today turns out to be a day that your neshama begged for to lets say win the lottery. Im sure you wouldn't mind if your neshuma begged for that!!

amother

Burgundy

Thu, May 25 2017, 8:09 am

I've learned this in school a lot and it's a revolting concept.

If my neshama did choose the things I'm going through, then it must have been the world's biggest idiot.

I think the source is Rav Tzaddok.

You'd be happy to know that he is a minority opinion with very ... unique ideas which were very often not accepted by mainstream Judaism.

life is fun

Thu, May 25 2017, 8:10 am

amother wrote:

I agree. Knowing this and living with this in mind makes life calmer. The thing is it takes work to get to this level of true belief and acceptance.

I have heard a few times that we were shown this life and agreed to it. And of course we can say it to others but just not at the wrong time. Like when they are going though a tough patch. They don't need to hear it then.
It's an idea to know about when in a good frame of mind.

PinkFridge

Thu, May 25 2017, 8:13 am

amother wrote:

(Waiting for Pink Fridge to recommend Man's Search for Meaning (which I haven't read yet)). Wink

Neither have I. But you can try Rabbi Yitzchak Kirzner's Making Sense of Suffering, she offers helpfully.

Actually, I've heard this. Can't tell you where and when I first heard it but I don't find it revolting, stupid, etc. I do think it's up there with absolutely worst, inanest, etc. thing one can say to someone who's suffering.

However, as something to put in my toolkit to remember when I myself am going through a challenge? I'm ok with it. It's usually told with a story, like the rich man who dies and says, "I have to go back? But You gave me such overwhelming nisyonos, I can't go back as a rich man again. I just can't!" So he goes back, to achieve his tikkun, as a poor man with a whole different set of nisyonos.

ETA: cross-posted with life is fun. Great minds and all that. (And that was the avatar I chose when I temporarily lost mine. Good taste! Wink

)

Last edited by PinkFridge on Thu, May 25 2017, 8:15 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Ecru

Thu, May 25 2017, 8:18 am

amother wrote:

If my neshama did choose the things I'm going through, then it must have been the world's biggest idiot.

I think the source is Rav Tzaddok.

.

That is hilarious. I mean sorry for whatever you are going through, but you've got a great sense of humor.

Rav Tzaddok you say. Anyone know where?

amother

Ecru

Thu, May 25 2017, 8:25 am

PF isn't that you who often mentions Viktor Frankel on these sorts of threads? Isn't that Man's Search fir Meaning???? Or am I getting totally utterly & ridiculously confused? I'll have to look for the other book you mentioned.

Like I said - I find it helpful sometimes. But I would never ever ever say it to someone else

amother

Sapphire

Thu, May 25 2017, 8:30 am

crust wrote:

Good morning Mrs. Ecru!
Are you Mrs ecru from the other thread?

You don't get the same Anon name every time! Otherwise, what exactly would be Anon about it? In another thread I was Pearl, now I am Sapphire.

amother

Ecru

Thu, May 25 2017, 8:37 am

amother wrote:

You don't get the same Anon name every time! Otherwise, what exactly would be Anon about it? In another thread I was Pearl, now I am Sapphire.

Yes but the weird thing was that I was ecru in the thread where I said I would sue my neshama for asking for too many challenges .

A weird coincidence.

Laiya

Thu, May 25 2017, 9:05 am

I think it's saying that if we knew the "big picture", if we were privy to Hashem's plan, then we would understand how all of the challenges are really for our benefit and accept them.

This is the type of thing that's helpful to some but not others...

yksraya

Thu, May 25 2017, 9:06 am

I find it helpful too.

Heard it at the self help shiurim I go to. But along with it she had told us that when mashiach will come we will laugh with a full mouth (forgot the exact pasuk, sorry) when we will see the clear picture and get all the answers.

The first time she said it tho, I did feel like killing her! But then it actually was helpful to me, as I know all my nisayons are not happening "just plain". It's all for a reason, and it's all for my own tikkun. Although I do not know why, and although I do sometimes cry "why why why".

amother

Teal

Thu, May 25 2017, 9:16 am

While I have never heard of "your neshama begged for this", I believe it sounds very similar to "gam zu letova". Which means that every single thing that happens including illness, physical suffering and death of children chas vshalom, is "good". Try explaining that one logically. You can't it's one of those things we just say even though we don't understand it and we certainly don't mean it.

FranticFrummie

Thu, May 25 2017, 9:24 am

A lot of this comes from the Zohar, and Rabbi Nachman of Breslov. I don't completely understand it, so I can't explain it. All I can say, is that I find it both frustrating and comforting at the same time.

To me, it's the equivalent of "Because I'm your parent, and I said so!" In that moment, you're too wrapped up in the misery of not getting what you want.

You can't understand that there are much deeper reasons for what you're experiencing. At the same time, you have to trust that your parent loves you, and wants the best for you.

When we are grieving, frustrated, or otherwise upset, it's easy to look at the parent and think "You don't understand me! I hate you! You're ruining my life!"

It's only in retrospect, with a lot of time, healing, davening, and good counsel, that we can even begin to comprehend G-d's ways. Even then, our understanding will never be complete.

What I find ultimately comforting, is that even though I sometimes act like an entitled, spoiled, ungrateful teenager to my Heavenly Parent, Hashem will still love me with infinite forgiveness.