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Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions
Help me make a decision



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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Tue, May 30 2017, 10:45 am
I know I'm the one who needs to make the decision, but I'm wondering if any of you could direct me to the best choice.

I was born in Israel, moved to the US when I was a teenager because my dad couldn't find work over there for awhile. But before that, he had a good job in Israel, we lived comfortably and I was happy over there. When we moved to the US, it took some time to get adjusted, in the end both my parents found jobs, I finished HS, went to College...ended up living here for 17 years! I kept on saying that next year I'll go back to Israel but it never happened, especially after getting married and having kids.

My parents are now retired and living nicely in Israel. Meanwhile, I'm still living in the US and we're struggling financially. We don't have any savings and we're still living in a one bedroom apartment (with three kids) that my father owns. We're paying for yeshiva tuition and by next year, it will double up since it will be for two kids (although I did apply for scholarship but haven't heard back yet). We own one car (and still paying for it) and my husband is still paying for student loans and we're just paying bills after bills. I haven't been working in 6 years. Of course now I'm trying to find a job, but even if I find one..I told my husband that it won't be enough for us to keep on paying yeshiva and we'll just never be able to move! how exactly are we going to save any money while still paying for yeshiva? My husband brought up public schools, but this isn't what I want for my kids (even though I did study in a public HS when we came from Israel). I feel that since my kids are still very young, I want them to start in a jewish school. I had all the jewish education in Israel and my parents didn't have this financial headache. So now my parents keep on telling us that the best thing for us is just to move to Israel. The problem is that my husband isn't Israeli and he's not too happy about the idea. If I decide to go, of course he'll come, but I don't want him to feel miserable. He thinks the quality of life over there won't be the same and he won't like it. We don't have high paying jobs, but I think in Israel he could be qualified for some jobs. But I need him to be supportive with it 100% in order for this to work because I can't deal with negative thoughts around me...I know it's a big move.

So it's not like we're moving to Israel without any family over there, I know we'd have some help. Of course I'd be happy to live there and not pay those high tuitions for schools AND the horrible healthcare system in the US. But I'm still not sure if we should do the big move. Right now, I'm leaning towards moving out of the states because I just can't see how we can keep on paying for tuition and still living in a one bedroom. I also feel like over here, everything is so stressful. My husband works so much and comes home late. In Israel, I feel like people are less stressed out and it just seems like a better place to raise a family.

I'm more willing to take the chance and move to Israel, but the things that are making me think to stay is... my husband (not too thrilled about it), not much money (I know we need spending money and something saved in order to move!) and just finding jobs over there. But I want the best for my kids and I feel like over there it's better to raise them.
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finallyamommy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 31 2017, 3:22 pm
Honestly, Israel is stressful too. My DH generally has 12-hour days with his commute. And don't forget that there's no Sunday over here. Not that that should stop you - but if you're going to move, do so with realistic expectations and not rose-colored glasses.

Is homeschooling (either in Israel or America) an option? Since you're not working right now anyway, and you had a frum education, and your kids are still young (I.e. you don't have to worry about a Gemara chevrusa), it might be ideal for you.

Otherwise, though, I do tend to recommend that people make aliyah if they can make it work.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 31 2017, 6:50 pm
I had a HORRIBLY stressful Aliyah, in several ways. Some things happened right away, and some things came up after our first year.

Still, I wouldn't trade it for the world. There are so many wonderful things here, tons and tons of little things, that all feel like miracles - and they happen every day!

Even the poorest person can sit on the beach and watch the waves, visit a kever, get a brocha, and make friends. There are things you can appreciate as an adult, that you probably never noticed when you were a teen.

One tiny example: I dumped a FULL cup of coffee on my laptop. I took it in to get evaluated, and it turns out the motherboard was completely fried. Dead as a doornail. I mumbled "Oh well, it should be a kapparah", and everyone in the store turned around and said "Amein!"

Where else in the world are you going to find that? Or the taxi driver who gives you a dvar Torah? Or that random guy who walks around blowing the shofar, telling people to "Wake up, and prepare the way for Moshiach!"

These are the threads that bind out souls together. Even the person who is rude and cuts in front of you in line - give her a brocha! Practice your Ahavas Isroel (because it will be greatly tested), and you'll find yourself becoming a more refined person, more in tune with the rhythms of Jewish life.

No amount of money can buy that. Sunny
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Super Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 31 2017, 8:32 pm
I suggest you both start job hunting online and put on your resume that you're in the US and available for Skype interview or think on a business you could start and start planning it. Don't come before you've got your income sorted. You're husband would feel more secure. I live in Netanya and love it. Rent is manageable and the elementary schools are nice. We're at the beach all the time and the kids have lots of friends. You're husband is right, it is a different life. People are less judgemental and less materialistic. It takes getting used to. I see it like shedding our chutznik gashmiut and it might feel uncomfortable and exposing but ultimately it's closer to the truth.
I don't know about how it works with American student debt. You should ask someone with experience. Good luck!
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LisaS




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 01 2017, 12:44 am
It is a decision you have to make as a couple for the future of your family. You need to discuss your husband's concerns and see if they can be addressed or are strong enough to weigh in favor of staying. Being near grandparents is a huge plus, and living in the Holy Land is an indescribable zchut, but a happy father is even more important.

Is there any way you can come here for a visit? When you come here your husband can see if he can see himself being happy here.

Are you happy in your current community except for the financial issues? If so, what type of community is it?
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Thu, Jun 01 2017, 3:44 am
Life in Israel isn't easy, but I think most ppl who live here feel the struggles have a purpose. It's worth the effort.
You'll still have to pay the college debt.
You wouldn't necessarily need a car depending on where you live.
Your income may go down, but so would tuition, healthcare, transportation (if you would be using public).
I don't think the quality of life is less. I think the emphasis on materialism is less, the focus on things that really matter is more.

Has your husband ever been to Israel? Maybe just come, and if after a year or two he doesn't like it, move back to the states. It's very common to be hesitant over the unknown.

If you'd be coming here with the expectation that life would be comfortable here versus America, I think that's not so realistic. Eretz Yisrael is acquired through yissurim, but I think there is more hashgacha and more siyata d'shmaya here.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 01 2017, 4:54 am
OP, has your husband every been to Israel? What professions do you both have?
Also, yes, tuition is much much less here as is health insurance, but just those things alone doesnt make life easy here. Just pointing that out.
This is something that you have to think about long and hard, with your husband, and also make sure your husband has at least visited Israel before taking the plunge.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Thu, Jun 01 2017, 6:56 am
Thanks for the replies.

My husband did visit Israel. We got married over there and then we came back for a visit about 3.5 years ago. Most of my family moved back over here and of course my parents are over there so it makes it hard while we're so far away (although I don't want to be too close, I also don't like being too far from parents).

I know that life in Israel isn't easy, but I just feel like it's a better place for my kids to grow up in. We both don't have the best high salary professions... my husband is a teacher, I have a degree in nutrition but haven't really used it as much (I'm not a licensed one) since I've been a stay at home mom and being a nutritionist isn't such a great job even over here. I'm open to work in something else in Israel. I'm already fluent in hebrew and english so it's easier since I speak the language. My husband will need more help with the language, but I think that a lot of olim have to go through that in the beginning.

Ever since I moved with my family to the US, I felt disconnected over here. Yes, there are good things over here and I'm grateful about it, but I still think there's no place like Israel. Of course it's difficult, but I rather struggle over there (and closer to my family) since I'm alone here struggling already.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Thu, Jun 01 2017, 8:56 pm
Could you do it like a trial run and see how it goes without committing 100% yet and see how it goes? If your husband is off in the summer (as a teacher), can you plan a trip over the summer to scout out options of where you might live, what types of jobs you can get, etc, etc & see how you both feel about options?
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 01 2017, 11:11 pm
there are nutritionists that work for the kupa. If you get your certification, you may be able to get a job as well as giving classes or running diet groups.
I would love an English speaking kupa nutritionist.
If your husband does not a have a high enough Hebrew level, there are other schools. Post-highschool institutions, the international school, There may even be Christian schools that need English speaking teachers.

Regardless of your Aliyah or not decision, What is your goal for five years from now? have you talked it over together? You do need some type of doable plan.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 01 2017, 11:49 pm
Several friends of mine recently told me that I can make a good living as a private English tutor. If you move to an area that is not an Anglo bubble, you'll have more work than you can handle.

Everything from English language preschools, to new Olim who are elderly and want to brush up on their high school English - all ages and backgrounds. English is an international language that is in high demand. You don't need to know a work of Hebrew, and you don't need a teaching degree.

I have a background in proofreading and editing (don't pick on me for typos please! I'm lazier when I'm just chatting online.) I want to start teaching high school girls who are interested in college degrees. A high level of English will bring these girls much better salaries than girls who can "just get by". It's an investment in my future, and theirs as well.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Fri, Jun 02 2017, 5:54 am
Iymnok wrote:
there are nutritionists that work for the kupa. If you get your certification, you may be able to get a job as well as giving classes or running diet groups.
I would love an English speaking kupa nutritionist.
If your husband does not a have a high enough Hebrew level, there are other schools. Post-highschool institutions, the international school, There may even be Christian schools that need English speaking teachers.

Regardless of your Aliyah or not decision, What is your goal for five years from now? have you talked it over together? You do need some type of doable plan.


I graduated with the degree 10 years ago. I did have some work experience, but didn't do the internship before taking the exam to get certified. So I read that in Israel, they do the same thing, first an internship is required and then an exam to be certified. It's most likely that I can't be certified in Israel before doing it here and to be honest, I'm not going to take that one year unpaid internship because I'm now taking care of kids. I love nutrition, but I also don't mind working in something else.

I'd say my goal for 5 years is to at least move to a bigger apartment since the kids will be bigger. We haven't moved at all and it seems like it will be difficult in NYC, unless we move somewhere out of town, but then there are different expenses such as needing another car and yeshiva tuition will always be a problem. I know there are beautiful places to live out of the city. But I'm also thinking about the kids and where it would be better for them. So that's one big reason why I'm thinking Israel.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 02 2017, 8:25 am
Quote:
Even the poorest person can sit on the beach and watch the waves, visit a kever, get a brocha, and make friends.


You can do this anywhere with a beach and kevarim, like... NY. Actually you should do that anywhere you can.

Quote:
I mumbled "Oh well, it should be a kapparah", and everyone in the store turned around and said "Amein!"

Where else in the world are you going to find that?

I used to live OOT and thought the same. Then I moved in a huge kehila and the non jews tell me shabbat shalom too.

Quote:
Even the person who is rude and cuts in front of you in line - give her a brocha!

If you do make alia, don't be a freier. Call the person on it, and stand your ground. Don't be the freier.If you can't do that, don't make alia. There's no shame in not being cut for it.

OP, the fact that your husband hasn't been and doesn't know modern ivrit worries me. Unless he's a happy sahd. Go with your eyes open if you do go.
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