Would you be offended if you were asked to be Kvatter?

amother

Yellow

Tue, Jun 13 2017, 11:24 pm

Would you be offended if you were asked to be Kvatter? We are b"H making a Bris but before I approach anyone about Kvatter I want to know if it is insulting to be asked.

amother

Wine

Tue, Jun 13 2017, 11:26 pm

I hope not! I made 6 brissen and it was always so agonizing to ask people to be kvatter. The last bris we used someone we hardly know. I know people who don't do the whole kvater thing and just have anyone pass the baby to the mohel.

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Jun 13 2017, 11:28 pm

Ugh yes I hated this. In fact I started a thread. I know some people will say it's a zechus (which btw, source please) but I found it incredibly uncomfortable - we hold to always act nidah in public!

We were asked at least 4 times over 2 years of marriage. Last bris I gave in and got way too many comments and sidelong stomach glances. Yes I am happily married for 2 years and happily am not yet pregnant (wasnt on bc but what if I were?)

When we made a bris we used dh single brother and sister. In the future I will sooner ask my grandparents than whichever newest couple is in the family.

amother

White

Tue, Jun 13 2017, 11:31 pm

Thanks for your question it's very sweet of you that you're trying to be as sensitive as you can. I do come from a small family. Of course it was only natural that they would offer it to my parents unfortunately not always were they able to do it.
I will share with you a story that happened to my mother. my uncle called up my father to see if my parents will be able to do it unfortunately my mother was not able to do it at the time because she was not clean for a long time and then my uncle went ahead and told the entire family that my parents could not do it. my parents felt very very hurt.
You can ask or text the couple. And obviously tell them if they decline they don't have to tell you why they are declining.
Mazal tov

amother

Cerulean

Tue, Jun 13 2017, 11:35 pm

I was asked as I was walking into shul for the bris by a well meaning family member. I was 5 months married and as happy to take the roll, but was a nida. I ended up passing to my mother who passed to my father who passed to my husband Smile

Sooo....9 months later I had a baby. and 2.5 months after that my mother had a baby! LOL

I guess because I was so newly married and trying I appreciated the offer but I could understand the awkwardness that might occur.

When my son was born I offered kvatter to a cousin of mine and they had a baby 9 months later. Smile

So to answer the question about whether there is a source for this, I don't know of one, but I believe in it.

tichellady

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 12:07 am

gold21 wrote:

You can give the honor of kvatter to someone you admire and who you would like to act as "godparents" to your baby, unrelated to any sort of segula.

This

amother

Hotpink

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 12:08 am

amother wrote:

So to answer the question about whether there is a source for this, I don't know of one, but I believe in it.

Well I have been kvatter twice, have been married for 8 years and have not any children yet.

amother

Copper

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 12:35 am

No, I was honored and touched every time I was asked to be kvatter. I appreciated the thought.

I was married 7 years before I had my baby, B"H. In those 7 years, I was asked many times. I accepted a few times, but even when I was asked, I felt so good that someone was thinking of me.

In fact - and this may be wrong of me - when we had close friends who had a baby but did not ask us to be kvatter, I was a bit insulted! I would've liked to be asked, even if I couldn't accept.

I think the right thing for the baby's parents to do is to ask, and it is up to the couple to decide if they want to or not. You, as the baby's mother, don't need to make that decision for them. Sometimes people are more inclined than other times.

It's best to ask when:
- you actually know the couple and have some connection - not random strangers who just happen to have no kids - that's awkward
- you let them know that there's absolutely no pressure to accept, and you mean it

amother

Mistyrose

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 12:37 am

Why would someone be offended by being given a kibbud? If you want, set things up so a husband and wife don't pass to each other (or use two pillows if your rabbi allows). It's a beautiful way to involve people in your simcha.

Iymnok

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 2:42 am

If you're thinking of asking someone who has been married a while without kids, do it through a third party so they could decline without pressure.
It's always nice to give the grandparents kvatter.

amother

Periwinkle

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 3:20 am

Yes, it is insulting my dh was asked twice only in our first year of marriage and we were offended. Especially because I was already pregnant but just still in the early months so no one knew.

amother

Mistyrose

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 3:22 am

amother wrote:

Yes, it is insulting my dh was asked twice only in our first year of marriage and we were offended. Especially because I was already pregnant but just still in the early months so no one knew.

Can you please explain? Did you want to be asked more often, or less?

amother

Periwinkle

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 3:31 am

amother wrote:

Can you please explain? Did you want to be asked more often, or less?

We didn't want to be asked at all. We were only married for less than a year and people were already asking us to be kvatter like we were already marked as the infertile couple.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 3:38 am

For me offended is the wrong word. I know people mean well, I really do, but being that we have been dealing with SIF for more than 7 years now, I know that people ask us because of that. We have only ever been asked by immediate family or very close friends, so we have never said no, but my husband and I HATE IT with a passion of note.
Just because we are going through infertility does not mean we want to broadcast it to the entire brit party.
So, offended? No, but never really wanting to do it but have to anyway? Yup.
And other than those britot, I have avoided britot for the last few years as it is too painful to be at them.
So, in other words, even if you know a couple who is going through PIF or SIF, dont assume that they want the segula. I dont even believe in the segula. But I do it anyway Sad

amother

Blue

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 3:38 am

I dont find it insulting. I just find it really uncomfortable. We have been twice. The first time was a really nice experience we were nearly a year married and not pregnant. The second time we were niddah and dh asked a shaila and was told we cant do it. Then the bris was delayed and we ended up being kvatter for dh brother and sis in law. By that time we were married well over a year.
Honestly that was really uncomfortable. People asked who is kvatter and then they heard it was me and I got stomach checks....and 'oh thats soooo nice'....it was uncomfortable and embarrassing especially as my sis in law barely let me hold the baby. She probably thought I would drop him. So I told my dh that I never want to do it again. Even for a sibling of mine. I just cant take the tactless people in this world....

amother

Teal

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 3:42 am

No. and periwinkle, u sound very strange- it's not a thing exclusive to infertile couples, it's just a segula for good children. They were not saying u can't have kids, they were just giving u a great opportunity to pray for great children.

amother

Plum

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 4:20 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

so well said.

amother

Aquamarine

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 4:36 am

Asked DH for sources
This was what he was able to find with in a few minutes.
In the Book Bris Secrets a source is brought from the Sefer Sharie Ahron a Posuk in The Torah!!! it says:

וְאֶתְּנָה בְרִיתִי, בֵּינִי וּבֵינֶךָ; וְאַרְבֶּה אוֹתְךָ, בִּמְאֹד מְאֹד

Translated in This context as:

Ones who brings the Child into My Bris (The Kvater) that is between me and you and I will Multiply you very Much.

The author of the Sefer Shaleiach Teshalach (English edition p. 98) writes that he was personally told by R' Elyashiv and R' Chaim Kanievsky that "there is no Midrashic or Rabbinic source whatsoever connecting the honor of kvatter with being blessed with children." He also cites R' Shlomo Zalman Aurbach to this effect (from the Sefer V'aleihu Lo Yibol). [Link here - search term "kvatter".]

I once tried doing a computer search for this, and the earliest sefer that mentions anything about it was by a contemporary author (written in the 70's, IIRC).

kvatter: Kavod Tir.
Yiddish: Honor from the door. Means: To enter the baby....