Would you be offended if you were asked to be Kvatter?

amother

Denim

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 10:33 am

When DH and I were asked, I think the couple offering it to us wanted someone who didn't have kids... We asked a shaila about doing it as I just got a positive POAS. We were told it isn't an issue. I wonder if they assume it was the honor that did it? Retroactive segulas? LOL

But seriously, people should stop looking at others stomachs and stop counting children! And at the same time, look beyond your situation and don't look for insult where none intended! IF isn't easy but not everything is meant to point out your situation or embarrass you... (Which means that there is shame, ie you should feel guilty over something...).

Chayalle

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 10:54 am

I like what Plum amother posted.

I've been kvatter four times, and have been offered the honor many more times than that. In my experience, I've taken it as an honor when the person honoring me is someone close to me - like my sisters and SIL. In fact, I was niddah 3 of the 4 times I was kvatter, and while it was somewhat uncomfortable, I was able to arrange to minimize this by arranging the passing with other family members in advance. (For example - one bris was in the beautiful Bialostoker Shul in NYC. The ladies were all upstairs in the balcony, and the men were all in the main shul. I told my father in advance that we would need his assistance, so he quietly slipped out with DH to get the baby from me. We were the only three people in the hallway, no one had to know my status....)

I also think the honor should be offered if it's someone you would normally honor (like a close friend or relative). To call someone you speak to once a year, is hardly a normal honor - and draws attention to a painful reality. I'd say skip it. I once got a call from a relative I speak to once in a blue moon, who told me she has a friend who is making a Bris in my area, and she "needs" a kvatter. I declined, and I thought it was a bit bizarre.

Also - do not be pushy! Don't take it personally if they decline. As others have posted, the source for kvatter being a segulah for children is quite questionable (to the poster who bought a pasuk - that's the first time I actually heard something credible - thank you! - but it's a nice vort at best. ) so don't take it personally if a couple declines your opportunity that you are convinced will be "the" segulah they need. It's sort of like pushing your personal belief on someone else - and that someone else happens to be dealing with alot, and sensitivity is called for.

Lastly - kvatter is a Kibbud - an honor. It should be treated like a Bracha under the Chuppah. Give it to cutesy young couples who enjoy it. Give it to the grandparents. My parents were kvatter at my mother's best friend's son's bris, when they were already grandparents - they were so honored and touched. Give it to someone who will feel honored, not to someone you barely or never speak to.

mommy3b2c

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 10:55 am

amother wrote:

You asked a shaila if you were allowed to be kvatter? Why?

Chayalle

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 10:57 am

Mevater wrote:

My mother raised in Europe always said its the greatest honor to be asked to be Kvatter because she had heard from her parents (in the early 1900's) that the child takes on some characteristics of the Kvaters, so Kvatters have to chosen carefully.

I have heard this about giving someone a name - that the person gets from the Ruach of the person they are named after.

I have never heard this of kvattering, and without a source, no offense but this sounds like more of an old wives' tale to me.

None of my nephews whom I kvattered bare any resemblance to me or DH in any way I can think of....

Raisin

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 11:02 am

amother wrote:

Not every positive pregnancy test results in a healthy baby. Sad

amother

Lavender

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 11:16 am

watergirl wrote:

Having said that, when we had our first boy, a couple who we were close with asked us if they could have the honor. We were actually planning on giving it to grandparents, aunts, uncles, people who had flown in, as was the custom in our shul. As we were close with this couple, we knew about their infertility and she also dipped in the mikvah after me when I entered my 9th month.

You went to the mikva together? Or she just told you when she went for her monthly cycles?

amother

Plum

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 12:09 pm

amother wrote:

You went to the mikva together? Or she just told you when she went for her monthly cycles?

see http://www.yoatzot.org/questio.....=1127

some pregnant women go the mikvah in their ninth month - which is a segula for an easy delivery. So some women will ask pregnant lady when (if) she will be doing this - and then immerse afterwards (or perhaps the pregnant lady will approach and offer)

amother

Teal

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 12:27 pm

amother wrote:

Thanks for pointing JUST me out, but other people also said they don't want to because of the segula and drawing attention to their childlessness so whats your problem??

You were married a few months- what childlessness?? You can even compare your situation to that of someone who is childless for 7 years! In your situation, they were just giving a newlymarried couple a great opportunity. In the other situations it was a little more obvious what it was about because those people have been married years without children. I was asked when I was married 4 months and 3 months pregnant, we asked our rav and was told to do it and daven at the moment of passing the baby. We did. No insult was given, no one yet knew I was pregnant, it was not a bad thing, I thought it was a great honor.

amother

Lavender

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 12:44 pm

amother wrote:

Interesting, I had never heard this, thanks. Im assuming it wouldnt be while shes bleeding?

amother

Periwinkle

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 1:15 pm

amother wrote:

When people ask within the first year, they're not marking you as dealing with infertility, rather if it's a seguloh to have children, they hope you will be blessed with one too. Sometimes people find it easier to ask those recently married as no one is looking at them as dealing with infertility in which case sometimes they do not want to be kvatter.
I was asked a few months after marriage, and we agreed, and I totally did not feel that anyone was looking at us as "infertile" and that we couldn't have children.

I happen to think in our case people were looking at us as infertile because we always got "soon by yous!" And a lot of people commented after I got pregnant that they thought we had been married for a few years already...

amother

Linen

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 3:59 pm

So as someone with IF, here's my 2 cents.

It's not insulting to be asked by a friend or relative as logn as it's clear we can decline if needed. We've said both yes and no before. But event he times when I've said no just because I didn't want to, I never felt insutled, since these are people who have relationships with me and care about me.

If it's someone who doesn't know me, I would feel really bad because what it sounds like is 'hi, I don't really know you and never really bothered to speak to you much before or get to know you, but I noticed you have no kids / haven't had a kid for several years. .."

So I would say if you don't know them, it might make them feel bad. But if it's a friend or a relative, it's not insulting, just make sure to allow them to say no if they want (e.g. don't ask them on the spot).

amother

Fuchsia

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 5:08 pm

I was asked twice within my second year of marriage. I was never insulted or embarrassed wen though we were TTC.

First time was my cousin & friend. It was prefaced by saying that we can tell them at the Bris. We don't have to say why, like if Niddah, pregnant already or just dont want. They had a back up in case. We were honored to be able to do it.

Second time was when I was in my fourth month. We have a minhag not to announce till the fifth month. My cousin asked his mother (who I was very close to) to ask me. She prefaced that there's no pressure and we can decline for any reasons and we should not tell her why. We declined. At the bris (I had entered my fifth month that day) I told her M"T and then let her know the good news that we were expecting and that is why we declined.

amother

Magenta

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 8:53 pm

amother wrote:

Thanks for pointing JUST me out, but other people also said they don't want to because of the segula and drawing attention to their childlessness so whats your problem??

She is correct. It is common to ask newly married couples (in the first year) to be kvater. It doesn't mean anyone thinks you are having IF. It is too soon for that anyway. You were being paranoid and it is this exact attitude that zaq is talking about - taking a kibbud and making it an insult. There is nothing odd about asking a new couple to be kvater. It's a great oppurtunity.