12 year old girls PLEASE HELP

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

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amother

Ecru

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 10:59 am

I have a 12 year old girl(after a bunch of boy) who I hear from everyone else is a pleasure and a dream and so nicely mannered. At home she is a kvetch who is annoying and mean and wants and wants and wants and takes basically no responsibility for anything. Have no concept of decency and couldn't care less about her appearance and EVERY morning we fight about getting her hair done. Is this normal? I almost feel like she's bipolar (she's B"H NOT). Please tell me what 12 year old girls are like and if and when it gets a little better. If I hear one more time take me to the store and buy me nosh I'm going to lose it FAST.

Stars

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 11:10 am

Quote:

EVERY morning we fight about getting her hair done

I dont understand, what is the fight about? Why would you get involved in anything to do with her appearance when you know she will put up a fight?

tigerwife

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 11:15 am

She's twelve. Definitely old enough to take responsibility over her appearance and face the consequences. I do not think you should be involved whatsoever. It seems to only be hurting your relationship.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 11:16 am

The good news, is that she is TOTALLY normal.

The bad news, is that she'll probably only get worse, until she's about 14. They don't call it the "terrible tweens" for nothing.

She will fight you on every. single. thing. It's a natural part of brain maturity, called "differentiation". She's discovering that she is not just a part of you, but that she is her own person. She has to push you away before she will feel like she can pull you closer.

Has she gotten her period yet? If not, she probably will any day now. Expect her to yell "I HATE YOU!" one minute, and then be curling up in your lap sobbing for no reason. Give her ice cream, but tell her that she's not allowed to take out her feelings on other people.

Explain that it's totally OK to HAVE feelings, but NOT OK to hurt others. She is in control of what she does with her feelings, and she needs to be held accountable. She'll fight you on this, but it will make her feel safe at the same time.

Signed, the mother of a girl who's just about to turn 14. We're finally getting along better!

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 11:19 am

Perhaps some kids like to be babied, but IME the average adolescent wants to feel independent, especially with clothing and hair.

You might eliminate a lot of negativity at home by stepping aside and giving her complete control of her body, unless she asks for help.

dancingqueen

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 11:32 am

I don't know op, but you should definitely try to change your attitude towards dd since she is surely picking up on your negativity.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 11:33 am

cm wrote:

THIS. And if the school or her friends make comments, let her deal with the consequences on her own. Tell her it's her responsiblity, and her choice.

cozyblanket

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 12:05 pm

I am sorry it is hard for you OP, but this is normal and you have some good advice above. I will add this:
Your post seems to mention 3 things:
1. Appearance (such as hair)
2. Taking responsibility / asking you to buy things in ways you don't like
3. Being mean - is this to you or to siblings?

1. As everyone said, don't argue about anything that doesn't violate halacha. Although walking out unkempt isn't in the spirit of the torah, you need to pick your battles and this isn't one of them. Once you let go, she may just care about this more on her own - eventually. Either way, don't ruin your relationship for hair.

2. This one is hard. I don't buy my kids everything they want. We buy their needs and a few wants and then with the rest -they can earn it (by working on areas we are working on) or buy it with their own money. My younger kids don't have much money, but my 12 year old does. She does things that bring in money (95% of it is from people other than us, but I do hire her for some things too). So she knows that if she stam wants tons of junk that isn't in our normal shopping routine, she can ask to come with me and buy it herself or she will pay me back if she can't come. Understanding that money comes from HARD WORK, NOT JUST FROM BREATHING and the value of a dollar can go a long way toward developing responsibility and not feeling entitled. A tween should hear at times (if this is the case) "we can't spend that money now, we are sorry, but let us know if you want to buy it yourself."

3. Tell her you can discuss this with her when she is calm... if it is something with you.
if it is siblings, some of it you have to not nitpick, but somethings you can't ignore. Wait til she is calmer and have the sibling go over and say "Rivka, it made me feel sad when you called me stupid/when you yelled at me before."

I am right there with you in this tween stage! Hatzlacha!

amother

Powderblue

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 12:58 pm

amother wrote:

I almost feel like she's bipolar (she's B"H NOT).

I'm sorry to jump on one quote from your post but it really rankles. I have an (older) teen daughter who is being treated for bipolar II. She is beautiful, well-groomed, and a pleasure to have around, both at home and in school. She's easygoing and gets along with everyone. She just suddenly started experiencing mood fluctuations and is being treated and doing well B"H.

It really hurts to see people throw out such lines, about a condition they know NOTHING about. All it does is hurt people and spread stigma.

Hope things work out with your daughter.

MagentaYenta

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 1:00 pm

My question is, why do the same thing over and over again to get the same results? You know the hair is going to precipitate a fight yet you continue to pursue it. I think I'm bothered by that and your attempts to demonize normative behavior for a child of that age (regardless of gender). Maybe it's time for you to take some parenting classes or get some quick therapy. It's likely she knows you feel the way you do.

Chayalle

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 1:09 pm

It's hard to get a clear picture of exactly what the issue is from your post. But as the mother of a (9 year old) child who is more strong-willed, cares not much about her appearance (real free spirit), and a real "presents" kid with regard to the five love languages (she just loves nosh, prizes, etc..and does her best to get more than her fair share in life), I would tell you that at the basis of cooperation from your child lies a loving relationship.

I've been advised, by more than one parenting expert, that to get my child to listen to me, I need to show her exceptional warmth, kindness, and understanding. I've found that it works. When I focus on giving her what she needs, she's much more amenable to hearing my point of view.

Love her, love her, and love her some more. By her candy and nosh not when she demands it, but just because you love her. Here and there, bring her a treat and say I bought this just because I love you. Call her name lovingly. Try to show her obvious love, at least 4X a day.

I went to the grocery with DD yesterday, and we chose a pack of gushers for Shabbos nosh. She subsequently tried to get me to get her something in just about every single aisle, and I (as gently as I was able, sometimes biting my teeth) reminded her that we already have gushers in the cart. At one point she said "but you aren't getting me anything" and once again I reminded her of the gushers, and she as like "oh, right".

That's life with some kids. But lately, with me focusing on her in different ways, I'm also noticing the good. Like last night, she cleaned up her own mess with only minimal reminders. This morning she allowed me to brush her ponytail without fuss (yesterday she informed me that she does not consider morning brushing to be consequential, and had no patience.) There are successes - one step at a time....

amother

Navy

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 2:11 pm

This is what I would do:
I'd say to my DD: "I don't know what got into me to be so overbearing with you. I've done a lot of self reflection and realize it's hurting our relationship. I'd like to step back from being on top of your hair/appearances. I have been thinking it's my motherly love driving me to be overbearing and I'm thinking maybe it would be more loving of me to step back. I'm interested to hear what you think about my idea to step back"

Also, I'd be very careful about any hint of anger. I often hear mothers saying, "it's YOUR responsibility and you'll suffer the consequences" with an edge in their voice, and often even venom dripping from their voice. This isn't helpful, it only serves to perpetuate the bitterness and adversarial dynamic.
There are processes you can do to neutralize any charge you might have around your dd's hair, so that when you discuss it with her she hears your love and not your contempt.

Btdt

yksraya

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 3:42 pm

Maybe try rewards and compliments for every time she does make her hair or cares abt her appearance.

Do not engage in any arguments. Ignore the tantruming. Stay calm (not easy, I know!) and do not argue back, let her beg and yell, but do not cave in to the tanruming.

In the begining it will be hard and she will try guilt tripping you that you are the meanest mom and that you are ignoring her etc. But the more you keep your cool and stick your grounds, the less often the tantrums will happen eventually.

amother

Khaki

Wed, Jun 14 2017, 3:47 pm

amother wrote:

There are processes you can do to neutralize any charge you might have around your dd's hair, so that when you discuss it with her she hears your love and not your contempt.

Btdt

Can you describe these processes? Please? Sounds like something that would be helpful to lots of people

amother

Aubergine

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 10:10 am

OP, a close family member is a psychiatrist. When DD1 was 12 and I was complaining, he pointed out to me that it really is normal for a teen (or almost teen) DD's response to "Good morning" to be tears and "How can you say that to me?" Girls are hard in a way that's different from boys--no surprise there but there can be a lot of pain during these years. To the extent possible, back off and tell her that you're doing that. Take her out for ice cream or coffee and tell her that you know it seems like you've not been getting along as well as either of you would like and that you've been thinking about it and realize that you still see her as a child and she's not. Tell her you want to respect her need for independence because that's what she deserves and needs. You still have family expectations of her but you're going to let her take responsibility for herself to a greater degree. It's her hair, her homework, her clothes (as in did she hang them up or wear them wrinkled ). As long as you don't suspect an eating disorder, you won't comment on her food. Think of any place you can give her more control (abd obviously you need to maintain control of some things--just don't bring that up yet) and tell her you're giving it to her because she deserves it as a maturing person. BUT that doesn't mean she can be mean to siblings, refuse to help when needed, etc. Practice walking away when she's made you furious (and she will--there's a lot more testing at this period than when they're 2), but go back to her when you've calmed down. Tell her you need to talk when you both can be calm. You're not a doormat but teen girls love to push buttons.
I used to take 10-minute breaks by going into my bedroom and closing the door till I was calm. My DD was very tech-oriented and loved emails or printouts also so we could put notes under each other's doors: "I was very hurt when you did x" or "I don't want to fight about y. How can we resolve this?" Some things just aren't negotiable but many are. She needs to learn how to negotiate too though--the burden isn't alll on you.
Here's what you'll get as time goes on: a "thank you" one night after she sees that her friend's mother doesn't knock before entering the friend's room(and you do, as respect), a "you were right" about the need to have prepared earlier for a test, a hug because you didn't tell her how horrible her hair looked and she's realized after 3 months that the style really isn't becoming and all you've said is that we learn these things by trying them, a very late night thanks because her friend's mom yelled at her in public and you don't.

Things that you may not have though about (speaking mother to mother here): talk to her about her body at quiet times o the extent that it seems appropriate --not over sit down "talk" but a lot of small followup comments. I know this varies by community, but I had a major shock when one of DD1's closest friends asked me while I was driving them to the mall if you could get pregnant by doing a certain thing. DD told me later how much she appreciated being able to ask me questions because I was so matter of fact. AND--DD was invited to sleepovers at the home of very frum girls where I found out no parents would be home. Check with the parents to make sure they know a sleepover is planned ("Chani invited my Sari to spend the night and I wanted to see what the plans are"). Don't assume frum girls don't drink or use drugs --you need to have that talk now and often. Tell her that all she ever has to do is call and you'll come get her, no questions asked. A group of boys from the related yeshiva showed up uninvited to a sleepover DD was at (parents were out). They brought alcholoh. DD called and asked if we could pick her and 2 friends up ASAP.
Your hard work will pay off.

(Sorry this is so long. DD1 just got married and told me as we prepared that she's sorry she hadn't always realized what a great mother I am --feeling tear-y here!)

Laiya

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 11:00 am

Chayalle wrote:

Loved this post, and also Aubergine

amother

Navy

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 11:04 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

THIS. And if the school or her friends make comments, let her deal with the consequences on her own. Tell her it's her responsiblity, and her choice.

Personally, I wouldn't even say that much. The tone of that statement, "it's your choice" feels unhelpful (to my ears and heart).

Some selective mutism may be a good idea.

Were my DD to complain about comments, I'd be sympathetic and say, "ouch, that hurts". I have enough faith in my DD to figure out a way through this. Of course, if she were to ask me directly for advice, I'd offer it in a most loving tone.

amother

Aubergine

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 11:54 am

FF--yes!!

amother

Navy

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 12:16 pm

If you have a sense dd might be bipolar it may be fruitful to investigate whether you are behaving in a bipolar way with her. Like being loving at times and being angry, in a way that makes it unpredictable.
I have a neighbor like that. She's super loving and super angry with her kids and it's kinda difficult to live with a mom who fluctuates between extremes of love and hate, or of kindness and meanness

little neshamala

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 12:42 pm

OP, I was somewhat like that at that age. The whole world knew me as sweet, helpful and mature, and my mother couldnt tolerate my terrible attitude at home.

Want to know why? Because it was a vicious cycle. Doesnt matter who started it...I would have a nasty attitude, she would become very exasperated with me. I didnt feel enough love, or more importantly-LIKE- from my mother, which in turn caused me to feel resentful and unhappy and grouchy. On and on.

I knew she loved me. I also knew she didnt like me as a teenage girl. She wasnt impressed with my level of tznius, she didnt like how unhelpful I was, she never "just wanted to hang out" with me, she never told me how much she loved xyz about me etc...

So why would I bring all my bouncy outside cheer inside the house where I wasnt appreciated for who I was?

All she had to do was stop criticizing me (even though it was warranted) or at least do the 90% rule-for every 1 negative comment, say 9 positive. That wouldve totally worked with me.

She could've laughed with me, asked me to keep her company on an errand "because I love your company". She couldve laughed at my immature jokes, pretended to love the way my earrings looked, asked me to pick one supper per week, asked my opinion on anything at all, so long as it felt important-even if she had to make it up...she couldve purposely spoken about me in a positive light where she knew I would overhear...she couldve told me "oh my gosh I really miss you when youre not home! U really brighten the place up" even tho it wasnt true...

All of those wouldve brought out my happy side. Instead, I fed off her negative vibes towards me (and they were subtle,but I felt them) and acted nasty, and therefor she fed off my nastiness and acted negatively...and on and on. Oh well. What a shame.

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