Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Judaism
Is this true?
1  2  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

sweetie2shoes




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 11:55 am
Someone told me one is not supposed to say regarding a non-Jewish child, "S/he is so cute." I can't understand, why not? Has anyone ever heard this and can explain?
Back to top

MommyM




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 12:03 pm
One is not supposed to compliment or flatter a non- Jew. So that's where this comes from.
Back to top

ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 12:04 pm
sweetie2shoes wrote:
Someone told me one is not supposed to say regarding a non-Jewish child, "S/he is so cute." I can't understand, why not? Has anyone ever heard this and can explain?

Unfortunately it sounds like someone is too insulated and afraid of the outside world.
All children are creations of Hashem.
Back to top

miami85




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 12:08 pm
All humans are created b'tzelem Elokim. I can hear why one shouldn't praise a non-Jew and NOT a Jew, but if not excluding a Jew, I don't know of a specific problem with it.
Back to top

sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 12:09 pm
How can I not call my nephews cute when they are so adorable?
Back to top

SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 12:16 pm
When I was little, and would make a new friend, my mother would inevitably say, "is she Jewish?" And I would inevitably respond, "how would I know?"

How on earth would I know if a random kid was Jewish? Even if mom is wearing a bikini, she could be a Reform descendant of David HaMelech for all I know.

So this makes no sense to me at all.
Back to top

centurion




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 12:16 pm
sweetie2shoes wrote:
Someone told me one is not supposed to say regarding a non-Jewish child, "S/he is so cute." I can't understand, why not? Has anyone ever heard this and can explain?


if so I have sinned many times over. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
Back to top

MommyM




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 12:17 pm
miami85 wrote:
All humans are created b'tzelem Elokim. I can hear why one shouldn't praise a non-Jew and NOT a Jew, but if not excluding a Jew, I don't know of a specific problem with it.


In his final speech to the Jewish people, Moshe Rabbeinu includes several warnings concerning Jewish contact with the other nations that they will encounter in the Land of Israel. In Devarim 7:2 he admonishes the Jews to "not make a treaty with them and give them no quarter ("lo techanem"); do not intermarry with them..." The general gist of this section of the speech is clearly that the Jews should avoid any significant contact with the other nations, lest they become too friendly and eventually assimilate with them.

The gemara in Avodah Zara 20a picks up on the phrase "lo techanem," and derives three laws from it, based on potential roots for the word. The first is that we may not sell them land (from "chaniyah" - giving them a place to reside). The second is that we may not praise them in any way (from "chein" - acting gracefully). The final law is that we may not give them gifts (from "chinam" - giving things for free).
Back to top

sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 12:18 pm
Ok, but like in practice we go to birthday parties and bring presents, regardless of the religion of the birthday-er Smile

Or risk looking reaaaally stingy LOL
Back to top

seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 12:25 pm
I dunno, maybe there's a difference between praising an adult vs calling a child cute (re. Lo sinachem.) Do we need to worry about flattering a child?

I work with non-Jewish children and eat up their adorableness! I can't imagine it any other way! I also can't imagine any other way being good PR for us. So I'm kind of forced to conclude that calling children cute is not what the Torah meant by that verse. Maybe it depends on the purpose or context of calling the child cute.
Back to top

tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 12:25 pm
MommyM wrote:
In his final speech to the Jewish people, Moshe Rabbeinu includes several warnings concerning Jewish contact with the other nations that they will encounter in the Land of Israel. In Devarim 7:2 he admonishes the Jews to "not make a treaty with them and give them no quarter ("lo techanem"); do not intermarry with them..." The general gist of this section of the speech is clearly that the Jews should avoid any significant contact with the other nations, lest they become too friendly and eventually assimilate with them.

The gemara in Avodah Zara 20a picks up on the phrase "lo techanem," and derives three laws from it, based on potential roots for the word. The first is that we may not sell them land (from "chaniyah" - giving them a place to reside). The second is that we may not praise them in any way (from "chein" - acting gracefully). The final law is that we may not give them gifts (from "chinam" - giving things for free).


First of all this was talking about the people of Canaan during the conquest, not a blanket statement about all non Jews. Second of all, this conversation in the Gemara doesn't translate into explicit halakha.
Back to top

hillary




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 12:29 pm
sequoia wrote:
Ok, but like in practice we go to birthday parties and bring presents, regardless of the religion of the birthday-er Smile

Or risk looking reaaaally stingy LOL


That is because we have a benefit from it. That is not a free present.
Back to top

sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 12:30 pm
hillary wrote:
That is because we have a benefit from it. That is not a free present.


Well, friendship is a benefit I'm sure. But then what IS a "free present"?
Back to top

agreer




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 12:38 pm
Yes, actually. it's true. There's a passuk in Devarim somewhere. I've forgotten the source, but it's actually true. You're not really supposed to say it.

Now, is it okay mipnei darchai shalom? Probably.
Is it like eating treif? Definitely not.

It's probably not the worst thing in the world...but yes! It is true.

(I'm just commenting on the validity of it. I'm guilty of calling non-Jews cute all the time.)
Back to top

SpottedBanana




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 12:50 pm
Hi everyone, first non-anonymous post here. Many an imamother thread goes round and round in circles with people giving pesukim, gemaras and "things they've heard," but there is a much easier way of doing things -- the Shulchan Aruch! (Not to be taken blindly, but some things really are cut and dry)

Yoreh Deah 151:11: "It is forbidden to give a gift* to a non-Jew that does not know him." (*the language is matnat chinam, which literally means "a gift for no reason." This may leave birthday gifts subject to interpretation.)

Yoreh Deah 151:12: "It is permitted to give them sustenance, visit their sick, bury their dead, eulogize them and comfort their mourners because of darkei shalom."

Seif 13 deals with leket, shich'cha, etc.

Yoreh Deah 151:14: "It is forbidden to speak their praises, even to say: "How beautiful is this non-Jew," kal v'chomer to praise his actions or to cherish something he said. But if he intends with his praise to acknowledge Hashem that He created such a beautiful creation," that is permitted."
Back to top

tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 1:06 pm
SpottedBanana wrote:
Hi everyone, first non-anonymous post here. Many an imamother thread goes round and round in circles with people giving pesukim, gemaras and "things they've heard," but there is a much easier way of doing things -- the Shulchan Aruch! (Not to be taken blindly, but some things really are cut and dry)

Yoreh Deah 151:11: "It is forbidden to give a gift* to a non-Jew that does not know him." (*the language is matnat chinam, which literally means "a gift for no reason." This may leave birthday gifts subject to interpretation.)

Yoreh Deah 151:12: "It is permitted to give them sustenance, visit their sick, bury their dead, eulogize them and comfort their mourners because of darkei shalom."

Seif 13 deals with leket, shich'cha, etc.

Yoreh Deah 151:14: "It is forbidden to speak their praises, even to say: "How beautiful is this non-Jew," kal v'chomer to praise his actions or to cherish something he said. But if he intends with his praise to acknowledge Hashem that He created such a beautiful creation," that is permitted."


I still don't think this is cut and dry, but different communities may have different approaches to this. We had a similar conversation about saving gentiles on shabbos and there was a wide array of halakhic viewpoints on that topic in modern times ( when most non Jews are not idolaters and we live in peace, for the most part).
Back to top

SpottedBanana




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 1:13 pm
tichellady wrote:
I still don't think this is cut and dry, but different communities may have different approaches to this. We had a similar conversation about saving gentiles on shabbos and there was a wide array of halakhic viewpoints on that topic in modern times ( when most non Jews are not idolaters and we live in peace, for the most part).


Saving non-Jews on Shabbos is definitely more complicated, e.g. there is always 911, other people to call 911, etc. I don't think there are too many factors involved in saying that a non-Jewish child is cute, unless maybe one has non-Jewish family etc. which is not the case in most situations.
Back to top

sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 1:19 pm
SpottedBanana wrote:
unless maybe one has non-Jewish family etc. which is not the case in most situations.


hi you're new here aren't you?
Back to top

MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 1:22 pm
sequoia wrote:
hi you're new here aren't you?


Ok, I had to laugh embarrassed
Back to top

SpottedBanana




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2017, 1:24 pm
sequoia wrote:
hi you're new here aren't you?


Technically yes, but I was lurking on imamother as a single for three years or so. Hi! Very Happy
Back to top
Page 1 of 2 1  2  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Judaism