Where to move - the simpler area or the frummer one

amother

Copper

Wed, Jun 28 2017, 3:36 pm

DH got a new job and we have two options of communities to move to - neither are perfect. Please help me decide which one is better.

A) There are many people similar to us hashkafically but it is a wealthier community. Our kids will go to the local schools. We will be one of the simpler families - not the simplest but clearly on the simple side. I am nervous that my kids will be jealous and want things that their neighbors and classmates have ie brand name clothing and expensive vacations.

B) We are a yeshivish and this is an MO community that some yeshivish people recently started moving into. It is a simpler community than option A. Our kids will not be in the local schools but will be bussed together with the other likeminded families to yeshivish schools a half hour away. I am nervous about option B because I do not want my kids to not be able to play at the neighbors house because I have to worry about what they will eat and watch.

Which one would you prefer and why?

amother

Rose

Wed, Jun 28 2017, 3:40 pm

B, unless you really stand out there. Simplicity is also a religious value, as you know, and it's very hard to inculcate it when you are working against peer pressure. Especially as your kids get older, their peers become important influences. If they are in school all day with materialistic kids, at least they will have shabbos to see something better.

amother

Chocolate

Wed, Jun 28 2017, 4:06 pm

I struggled with the same dielema. One more issue I had was that I loved the house in the wealthier community and it was the same price. I chose the nicer house.
Its been a while. We got used to certain facts. I can only get my kids what I can. We are rooted in our reality and are not trying to look anything that we arent.
The pressure seems to come much more from thier friends in school than from this upper class but not snobbish neighborhood.
I also love the fact that they always have a freind with whom to come home from a freinds sister's wedding or any other function.

I still have the option of selling my home which doubled in value since we moved and buy 2 houses in a more relaxed, simpler community. My children wouldnt hear of it. They love their neighbors and can't see themselves living so far from their school freinds.

tichellady

Wed, Jun 28 2017, 4:07 pm

What are you more worried about: your kids being exposed to what you consider excessive materialism or what you consider inappropriate tv/activities and food that is not up to your kashrut standards? It seems like that is the real question.
Normally I would be more worried about the latter option but it seems like in this case there are more families that are similar to you moving in and your kids will be going to school with kids from like-minded families so I think the level of exposure will be minimal

amother

Copper

Wed, Jun 28 2017, 5:43 pm

tichellady wrote:

I realized I made some assumptions so let's clarify: Is the school in option b the same as the school in option a? If not, are you worried about materialism in the option b school? Or not as much?

Different schools. School in option b is a simpler parent body than option a but my kids will have just one or two kids from neighborhood in school with them. One big hesitation that I am having with b is that as my kids get older thay will have very few neighborhood friends.

tichellady

Wed, Jun 28 2017, 5:58 pm

amother wrote:

I assume living in the city where school b is (or where the student body is from) is not an option. It sounds like a hard situation. not sure what I would do

amother

Salmon

Wed, Jun 28 2017, 6:14 pm

amother wrote:

How liberal is the MO community? Is it really possible that all of the families there are too liberal/not the right kashrus for your kids? MO is a massive spectrum, and towards the right many hold much the same standards as more modern yeshivish families.

I don't know where you land on the spectrum, but maybe you could investigate the breadth of community B?

amother

Natural

Wed, Jun 28 2017, 6:34 pm

amother wrote:

Furthermore, just because someone appears more modern than you, it doesn't mean that you don't share the same hashkafic values. Perhaps some of the families don't watch TV and keep CY and those that don't quite possibly would fully respect that you don't want your children watching things/eating non-CY stuff.

I say go with the simpler place. There are already enough families on the same page as you and possibly many more if you just accept that they may actually be ok. It's not like anybody will be force-feeding your children treif or making them watching R movies. They are frum parents.

Hatzlacha making your choice.

amother

Copper

Wed, Jun 28 2017, 7:15 pm

Op here. I am sure there are many wonderful ppl in the MO community and ill have no issue with my kids being in their house. My main concern is that like it or not we are different and kids notice that. I know as I got older say around 4th grade I played with kids that I went to school with. The kids in the differnet schools all stuck to themselves. I am worried that my kids wont have many social choices not neccasarily cuz we are too frum just cuz there will be very few classmates nearby. There is a neighborhood school where all the other MO kids go and my kids will be the odd one out.

amother

Goldenrod

Wed, Jun 28 2017, 8:11 pm

Not sure which choice I'd make in your situation, but I am poor and live on a wealthy block in Flatbush. Although I have close friendships and frumkeit and hashkafah wise I have a great deal in common with my neighbors, it is a constant nisayon . It is a struggle to be the odd man out, and have such a different reality than ones neighbors. Obviously if your children are in a different school than the rest of the community, they likely will feel like the odd man out in that situation as well.
Hatzlocha with your decision!

Petra

Thu, Jun 29 2017, 12:05 am

I think it's easier to live in the neighborhood where the kids go to school with their neighbors and friends. But then again, I have never lived in a neighborhood where wealth is important. I'm MO and in my community there are some yeshivish families also. We all get along nicely and even eat at each other's tables.

amother

Gray

Thu, Jun 29 2017, 12:17 am

I feel it's two chinuch issues at stake here:

1. The first option gives you a unique ability to teach your children histapkus b'muat. If you are happy with what you have despite others having more, then you have the chance to teach them a lifelong lesson that will serve them well. You will also be able to show how important it was to you that you live in a place that will support your personal standards and help them to remain/become the people that you want them to be in terms of Yiddishkeit. Make it into a positive experience, explaining why you chose this over the other.

2. Going into a community in which the tznuis standards and the contact between the genders is less than what your kids have seen so far is likely to begin a downward slope in the child's observance. Not because anyone means bad, but because there is a certain allure to dressing the same as others in the community, acting the same as others, and of course, there is a pull for everyone to simply dress in a more showy fashion and interact with the other gender. Its built into human nature, and taking a child from a more inclusive environment to a lesser one may prove detrimental.

I also believe that is preferable to be the "poor" person on the block but be surrounded by people that you can share a similar worldview with and allow your kids to run back and forth within reason. If you are worried about kashrus/tznuis standards in the other community, and your kids feel that they "can't" play with others, that will either make them feel wrongfully elitist, hurt or simply lonely. And of course, the neighbors won't be happy to feel like they are less than you...

If it were me, I'd be leaning towards the first option, but of course, I would ask a Rav I am close to for his opinion and a bracha before deciding.

tichellady

Thu, Jun 29 2017, 12:21 am

My two best friends growing up didn't go to my school and both were from more yeshivaish families. This is totally anecdotal though. I think it's possible to ask parents to make accommodations for your kids in terms of frumkweit but not in terms of materialism (" please no PG-13 movies "vs "please don't make such a fancy bar mitzvah party". But that's just one way of looking at things

madys

Thu, Jun 29 2017, 12:38 pm

I'm going to assume that option A is 5 Towns and option B is West Hempstead for arguments sake. (It doesn't matter if that's actually what you are considering for my examples).

I live in West Hempstead and I am MO. I cover my hair and wear skirts, My girls were bussed to school in the 5T. One through High school and one through middle school. (She goes to an all girls High School in Queens) They each had about 8 other WH girls in their class. They mostly stuck with the WH girls but did make close friends in the 5T. They would go to 5T for shabbos, and they would have 5T girls to us for shabbos. They ALSO made close friends with girls their age that went to other local schools and would spend shabbos with them also.

We have shabbos lunches and are very close friends with people from all walks of life. People who are black hat (we are not) and people who are more modern.

I would never tell my child not to play with someone who may be more modern than us. And I would hope that people who were more to the right of us wouldn't ban their kids from playing with mine. I think that's what makes life interesting. Getting to meet different people.

Being that my girls were in school in the 5T, there was definitely a "Keeping up with the Cohen's mentality that we had to work with. Our older daughter is very down to earth and she was fine living within our budget. The younger one had a harder time dealing with the name brands and materialistic things (that's why she went to high school in queens)

Good luck with your decision.