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Does Hatzalah train to save men before women?
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amother
Red


 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 1:29 pm
I'm wondering if the halachah that a man should be saved first if both a man and woman are drowning is really halachah l'maaseh.

For example, if a man and woman are married 10 years without children, they're supposed to get divorced, but I think the Rambam says we don't do this halachah, and if they want to stay married, they can. So that's an example of a halachah which is not l'maaseh IMHO.

If a man must truly be saved before a woman, I'd like to know if Hatzalah members are trained to do so.

Are they told to treat men first at the scene of an accident, pull men out of a burning building first, and if a synagogue collapses (I just saw the movie The Women's Balcony, so it's on my mind!), they should head first to the men's section to rescue people.

And what about children? Should little boys be rescued prior to little girls? What if a boy under bar mitzvah and a girl over bas mitzvah both need to be saved?
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 1:38 pm
I've never seen this being done, if anything during the Shoah they did everything to save women and children. Including in the frummest families. We can put that to rest.
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amother
Khaki


 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 1:49 pm
There's an amother who is a first responder, and she was told by her Rav she's obligated to treat men before she treats women.

There was a thread about it a few years ago.
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simba




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 1:51 pm
I don't like the sound of this. Someone here who's husband is on hatzalah, please put this to rest.
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amother
Gray


 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 1:56 pm
Absolutely not!!!!!!! Hatzalah treats whom they get to first, whoever is more critical g-d forbid.
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amother
Gray


 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 1:58 pm
amother wrote:
There's an amother who is a first responder, and she was told by her Rav she's obligated to treat men before she treats women.

There was a thread about it a few years ago.


That's weird. I would imagine such a Rav would tell her she can treat male patients at all. Confused
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 2:00 pm
That may apply if all else is equal.
But according to that Halacha, a chashuva woman takes precedence over a am haaretz man.
If she is in a bigger sakana, she would take precedence.
There are many variables involved, so I can't imagine that they could just say a flat "men first!".
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 3:54 pm
This is ridiculous. Mg husband is a paramedic. He does triage and treats the most seriously injured person first. Whether they are a man or a woman. I don't know who that poster was who said that she was told to treat men first, but she was a troll and she was lying.
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 4:06 pm
mommy3b2c wrote:
This is ridiculous. Mg husband is a paramedic. He does triage and treats the most seriously injured person first. Whether they are a man or a woman. I don't know who that poster was who said that she was told to treat men first, but she was a troll and she was lying.


I feel like if all the distortions weren't enough, 2017 had to come up with some new ones.

Whoever cannot learn, should not pasken.

In that same Gemara, there's a different discussion of who should be freed from jail first. Its the woman's chance.
I am not intrested in making this another mishpacha, pedestal, women's rights thread, but I want to point out that no. Things are not taken so literal out of the Torah and put into practice.
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amother
Goldenrod


 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 4:14 pm
The ridiculousness of this post gave me a good laugh.
Tizku Lmitzvos
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Greenbelle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 4:21 pm
Why don't you call Hatzalah and ask!!!
All I know is that Hatzalah is there for every single person and based upon their speed, demeanor, care, love, concern and complete and total ahavas yisroel I could never even dream of such a concern.
ONLY Hkbh can put a value on any person's life or decide who is more worthy. I am positive that these issues are never even discussed in Hatzalah trainings.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 4:33 pm
I think hatzalah is unlikely to be in such a situation. A fireman (are there an firewomen?) or lifeguard, maybe.
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 4:37 pm
amother wrote:
There's an amother who is a first responder, and she was told by her Rav she's obligated to treat men before she treats women.

There was a thread about it a few years ago.


I remember that.

I wonder how many people got the same psak and follow it but, you know, didn't post about it on imamother.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 4:43 pm
sequoia wrote:
I remember that.

I wonder how many people got the same psak and follow it but, you know, didn't post about it on imamother.


How about zero?

You'd be kicked off hatzala for saying such a thing. Hatzala does not have mentally unstable members.
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 4:47 pm
sequoia wrote:
I remember that.

I wonder how many people got the same psak and follow it but, you know, didn't post about it on imamother.


Or at least post the name of the posek, also.
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amother
Gold


 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 4:48 pm
mommy3b2c wrote:
This is ridiculous. Mg husband is a paramedic. He does triage and treats the most seriously injured person first. Whether they are a man or a woman. I don't know who that poster was who said that she was told to treat men first, but she was a troll and she was lying.


There is no triage when you're called to deal with two people who are about to drown in a river, or to be pulled out of a building that's on fire.

As another poster mentioned - these aren't cases for Hatzolah who deal with responding to a medical emergency or emergencies.

Deciding who needs more urgent medical care is not the same is deciding who to pull out of a burning house.
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pause




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 4:54 pm
Ruchel wrote:
I've never seen this being done, if anything during the Shoah they did everything to save women and children. Including in the frummest families. We can put that to rest.

This is really controversial to bring up and I'm not judging in any way, but absolutely not. This was definitely not the case for all families and kehillas.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 5:03 pm
amother wrote:
There is no triage when you're called to deal with two people who are about to drown in a river, or to be pulled out of a building that's on fire.

As another poster mentioned - these aren't cases for Hatzolah who deal with responding to a medical emergency or emergencies.

Deciding who needs more urgent medical care is not the same is deciding who to pull out of a burning house.


If two critically injured people are pulled from a building, hatzala would not treat the man first. That's my point.
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iyar




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 5:53 pm
Now I've seen it all.
What do we do for a follow up?
Tough.
How about a thread on Jewish men baking the blood of baby girls into Matzah?
Oh.
Seems that one's been used already....
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amother
Gold


 

Post Thu, Jul 06 2017, 5:57 pm
mommy3b2c wrote:
If two critically injured people are pulled from a building, hatzala would not treat the man first. That's my point.


and mine was that hatzala doesn't make the decision on who to pull - which was OP's premise.
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