s/o so what is the meaning of life

simba

Tue, Jul 11 2017, 10:15 am

wanna wrote:

Its a qoute Reb Avigdor is famous for. Don't say its taken out of context because you didnt learn it yet.

Can you post the full quote with a source? I doubt the Rav said the meaning of life is to have enjoyment. End of sentence. End of paragraph. You even went on to explain that he said don't go around saying I said to eat steak but if you do...

Yes, enjoyment in what you are doing is a major goal. Whether it is eating steak or bathing your kids. I am all for it. So is being content with what you have. The point of contention I have is the deeper meaning behind the smile.

Because we are grateful HaShem gave us children. We are grateful we have parnassa and can by steak. We are happy to have the Torah and be able to impart it to our children. We are happy and enjoying because of all the good bestowed on us.

The challenge comes when you don't have that flow of goodness and you are still commanded to be happy.

PinkFridge

Tue, Jul 11 2017, 12:47 pm

wanna wrote:

This is not an argument. Rav Miller said this. If it doesn't make sense to you, his works are available for anyone to read and learn. It does take effort to follow through.

The ultimate goal is to enjoy life AND thank Hashem for every moment of pleasure.
He said don't go around town saying Rabbi Miller said I should eat steak! But, if you do eat steak, enjoy every bite and thank Hashem for it.
You mustnt party all day, but if you do, enjoy the party and Thank Hashem. Mission accomplished.
For more of this in depth, see his books. I love the white hard cover published in 2012.

I believe I heard that he said, sometimes you need that ice cream. Maybe this was actually what he said.
He never went to E"Y, and while I'm sure he had reasons, the one I heard he gave was, "I'm not finished getting the all the geshmak out of the daled amos I live in." His idea of fun was crossing a busy noisy street and yelling, I love you, Hashem! to get it out of his system without people looking at him (theoretically no one heard him). (Also, can't give you exact source.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx_NgHIBRt4
His grandson, Rabbi Brog, whose family lived in the same house, remembers his grandfather coming down with a great gift for his grandson: a bag of apple seeds that he was through with.

As I've said, check out the Stone Chumash on the last parsha of Shema, end of parashas Shelach. Some people look at tzitzis and think 613 and Heaven. If a person is looking for something, he will find it in all sorts of places. Rabbi Miller, zt"l, was looking for the greatness of the Creator and pleasure in His creation.

marina

Tue, Jul 11 2017, 12:51 pm

amother wrote:

Mesilas Yeshorim:
האדם לא נברא אלא להתענג על ה', וזה העולם הבא. והאמצעיים לזה הם המצות, ומקום עשיתם בעולם הזה.

Chabad:
נתאוה הקב״ה להיות לו דירה בתחתונים

Neither answer the full question though. Why? Why does God need this? A dira b'tachtonim essentially is the answer for both of the above and it doesn't answer the why.

Chabad then says oh, you don't ask questions on a taavah.

Whatever Smile

PinkFridge

Tue, Jul 11 2017, 12:53 pm

If someone gives gifts, he will be more likely to give more gifts to the recipients who accept the gifts joyfully, and use and appreciate them, with gratitude. Is the purpose of life? Maybe, because it keeps us connected to the Giver. But it's certainly the MO (as in modus operandi) of good living.

PinkFridge

Tue, Jul 11 2017, 12:55 pm

marina wrote:

If you get an answer in this world let me know. This is where my head explodes.
I guess it's the kernel of faith that everything else springs from. I still have an easier time living my life knowing that this is the ratzon Hashem than I think I would if I were a science type and everything came back down to, but who created that first atom sheb'atom, or maybe it was aliens (which I've heard ascribed to a noted scientist).

marina

Tue, Jul 11 2017, 12:57 pm

wanna wrote:

if this was really the purpose of life, I'd think there would be a more significant emphasis on enjoying life. Going to visit the world's beautiful sites would be a VERY important mitzvah as would be trying all different kinds of food. And tantric 5ex LOL

But none of the above is true- these are not important features of standard orthodox avodat hashem.

PinkFridge

Tue, Jul 11 2017, 1:05 pm

marina wrote:

But none of the above is true- these are not important features of standard orthodox avodat hashem.

You're on to something. Rav Hirsch went to the Alps as he felt he be asked, "Nu, what did you think of My Alps?" But that's because they were in his backyard. The idea is, are you appreciating this world? With the right mindset you don't have to go too far to fulfill this.
And re relations (without going into the....um...exotic stuff): All relationships are metaphors for us to relate to Hashem. Certainly people who aren't married or don't have children can reach high levels in their connection, but for those of us who are and do, we have some great opportunities. Again, one doesn't have to go through all the options in the KS, iywim.

About foods: So how does this reconcile with pas b'melech tochal? I think the idea is that in taking care of our personal needs such as food, clothing, shelter, it's healthy to go a bit below our means (and certainly a Torah scholar needs to be prepared to rough it; think of all the stories about essen teg, etc.). There's also the concept of naval brshus haTorah.

http://agudathisrael.org/the-j.....5736/
Worth downloading to read Rebbetzin Weinbach's Chicken A la King.

martina

Tue, Jul 11 2017, 1:13 pm

amother wrote:

Read Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. The conclusion is that the meaning of life is 42. Trust me, you need to read the book. (Btw, he was an outspoken atheist.)

Got it thanks Smile

And innocently came on to post my reply - read victor frankels book "mans seach for meaning"
LOL

youngishbear

Tue, Jul 11 2017, 5:48 pm

martina wrote:

Got it thanks Smile

And innocently came on to post my reply - read victor frankels book "mans seach for meaning"
LOL

I second that.

Although his conclusion is not a definitive answer, but that we all must and do make meaning of our own lives in our own way.

I think that's where our individual tafkid comes in. The derech of "Hashem wants us to enjoy His world" does not speak to me because I don't enjoy nature much. I also see a world too full of suffering to believe that. But it works for enneagram type sevens, I'm sure.

I do believe maintaining gratitude even in the darkest times keeps a person's life meaningful. Rabbi Miller was an expert in demonstrating how even the tiniest details in this world can inspire us to gratitude. But that's not quite the same as enjoying life...

wanna

Tue, Jul 11 2017, 6:33 pm

simba wrote:

Can you post the full quote with a source? I doubt the Rav said the meaning of life is to have enjoyment. End of sentence. End of paragraph.

Now that's sharp. I assume you have all his shiurim in your head laid out in files if you can so confidently deny a simple fact.
Please read the sefer Chovos halvovos with otzer Avigdor, for starters.
I also heard it from him on tape, just dont recall which tape right now.
You can also find this verse in many areas where he explains this particular Mesilas Yishorim.
He qoutes it from the Alter of Slobodka.
Enjoy.

Last edited by wanna on Tue, Jul 11 2017, 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

wanna

Tue, Jul 11 2017, 6:45 pm

youngishbear wrote:

I'm a type 4.
I did not realize the OP question was that she's searching for meaning in suffering. The purpose of life and the purpose of suffering are really two different things.

youngishbear

Tue, Jul 11 2017, 6:48 pm

wanna wrote:

I'm a type 4.
I did not realize the OP question was that she's searching for meaning in suffering. The purpose of life and the purpose of suffering are really two different things.

I don't think she was.

I was addressing the idea that the purpose of life is to enjoy it. I find that difficult to accept because life is not full of pleasure.

amother

Powderblue

Tue, Jul 11 2017, 6:52 pm

Op here

Interesting what happened to this thread. It was a spin off from the person who was saying she thinks about the meaning of life all the time. Others said that they do too. I was wondering what they all thought.

The answers given have been from torah sources, which have been very interesting, thank you.

For the person who asked about 42, the fully quote is something like at the end of the whole book, they fin the answer to the mystery of life, the universe and everything. And it looks something like this

What do you get when you multiply 6 x 9?

42.

42?

I knew that there was something fundamentally wrong with the universe.

Not a Torah concept, but funny nevertheless.

behappy2

Tue, Jul 11 2017, 8:20 pm

I think that God intended for us to sort of grow our soul and part of that process I think is being able to be present and enjoy his gifts and connect with ourselves which is really connecting with our Neshama which is a part of Hashem. I think that this journey can only happen through pain and being on this earth. I do not have a source for this and yes I think a lot.