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Rav invites us every single Shabbos meal - right to b upset?
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amother
Brown


 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 3:11 am
Hi,

I am a convert of 15 years, spent two years in seminary. My husband is a baal teshuva of 11 years, spent 5 years in yeshiva and learns every day.
We got married two years ago and before the marriage, my husband worked as a "minyan boy" in the community to have some pocket money which probably still sticks with him somehow.

We now both have regular and decent paying jobs, a nice small rented apartment. I love to cook and since I work 50 hours a week and hubby 40 hours plus part time kollel, we enjoy making Shabbosim at home at our own pace and whenever we want. We just cant sit at someones Shabbos tish for hours (here they are Hasidic and love shlepping the seuda for 4 or 5 hours straight...). We are Litvak and enjoy short and toradik seudas.

Yet... the Rav of one shul my husband goes to (mainly also for chesed purposes, they have minyan problems) invites us for EVERY SINGLE shabbos meal EVERY single week! I most of the time decline and that Rav seems to be personally upset and hurt whenever I decline.
Yes, we go there once in a few weeks for one meal but he really wants us for every single meal and gets personally upset if we do decline.

I do have the feeling the reason is that because I am a giyures and my hubby is a BT he thinks we are incapable of making our own Shabbos and he is doing a huge mitzva..

He is a true baal chesed and runs a shul for all (sorry) "nebbachs" of the community, like "that" weirdo single old man, "that" unemployed yeshiva drop out, "that" Jewish refugee, "that" conversion candidate, "that" guy who does not fit into any mold. He has some of them regularly at his table (which I think is great) but... it makes me uncomfortable to be counted among them and I do not feel comfy in this company.

Today again (Thursday noon!) I bumped into him and he again wanted us for Shabbos. I told him two times that I have my own Shabbos food already prepared and we are at home this Shabbos. He absolutely did not want to accept that.

Is it right of me to feel that way? How would you act?
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amother
Coffee


 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 3:41 am
Your feelings make a lot of sense to me. It sounds like he still thinks of you as a "project" and hasn't moved on. Perhaps he imagines the two of you home alone and that seems unbearably lonely. Some people can only see shabbos with a crowd. (I say this as I'm figuring out my menu for 16 of us this week, so I have nothing against big crowds.) But it can be lovely for a couple to enjoy each other. Thank him, and have a wonderful shabbos.
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amother
Brown


 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 3:53 am
I have no idea why that rav sees us as a "project" other than he probably thinks I am a dumb convert who cannot cook or know the halachos of shabbos.
We are both fully seasoned frum for ages, he even attended our wedding and he knows us as fully frum from before the wedding. We have never been a "project", yet, he may still see us as one.

I do host people frequently for Shabbos or Yom Tov meals, as well. No problem with crowds Smile
But we love the couple quality time, too.

And I feel I should have outgrown the "project status" after 15 years of being Jewish.... same goes for my husband who is a BT of 11 years plus and who has an intensive Yeshiva background, more than many FFB here in the community...
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 3:55 am
I totally get you. Maybe try to word your response to include future weeks as well. In other words, when the rav invites you over, instead of saying "no thank you, I already cooked", maybe say " no thank you, dh and I both agree that now that we are married for 2 years we prefer to have the shabbos meals at home". The latter response indicates that it's not just about this week.
Hatslacha!
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 3:56 am
I'm so sorry that this is happening!
Maybe next time he invites you can say we're not available to come but we're hoping that you can be OUR guests this Shabbos. Tongue Out
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amother
Brown


 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 3:57 am
Good idea but I am positive he wont eat by us.... Tongue Out
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 3:58 am
amother wrote:
Good idea but I am positive he wont eat by us.... Tongue Out

Even so. Wink Just keep responding with an invite every week until her gets it?


Last edited by ra_mom on Thu, Jul 13 2017, 4:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 4:00 am
Because it keeps happening, I think you should be direct with him.

"The rav is so kind to invite us to Shabbos meals so frequently! Since you have asked us so often, I want to share why we may not accept all the time. DH and I, maybe because of having come to yiddishkeit later, both really treasure our very own Shabbos table. It's a huge oneg Shabbos for us to enjoy meals in our own home. We love the planning and cooking, then the kedusha of our own mikdash m'at once the sun sets. We're happy to socialize once in a while, but not every Shabbos meal."
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 4:11 am
amother wrote:
I totally get you. Maybe try to word your response to include future weeks as well. In other words, when the rav invites you over, instead of saying "no thank you, I already cooked", maybe say " no thank you, dh and I both agree that now that we are married for 2 years we prefer to have the shabbos meals at home". The latter response indicates that it's not just about this week.
Hatslacha!


Good response!
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 4:14 am
amother wrote:
Good idea but I am positive he wont eat by us.... Tongue Out


It would be astonishing if the rav ate anywhere outside his own home, except at his own rebbe and his own immediate family.
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Mommastuff




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 8:13 am
Even with all you've said, OP, I still wouldn't assume he thinks you're a nebach case.
I, for one, know a number of geyoreses (how ever you say it plural) and I happen to think that, since they've studied so much to convert, they probably know a lot of halachos.

It sounds like the Rabbi is just a outgoing individual with a strong personality.
THATS why ha can't take a polite "no" for an answer. That's up to you to decide how to respond.

He probably needs to have company more than you would want to be company.
He thinks a Shabbos meal with a crowd is the best way to enjoy a seudah so he eagerly wants you to enjoy it that way as well.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 8:18 am
I think it is normal for a couple before they have kids to eat with family or friends each week. Since you (presumably) do not have parents around to host you, the Rav maybe feels obligated to invite you. I doubt he is insulted if you do not come, he just really wants you to feel welcome. He might also really enjoy your company too!

Just say, sorry, this week we just want a quiet shabbos. (wanting a quiet couple only shabbos is nothing to do with being a BT or ger btw)
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amother
Puce


 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 8:19 am
I seriously doubt he thinks of you as a nebach, or as a convert who doesn't manage to make her own shabbos.
He's Inviting you out of concern that you have no family to share shabbos with.

Explain to him that shabbos is the time you get spend with hubby and you like it that way.

Show him that you enjoy shabbos st home and he shouldn't be concerned for you.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 8:26 am
It may be cultural. We hold young couples need time together, and I don't know anyone going to someone until they have children.
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sweetpotato




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 8:29 am
Why not take it as a big compliment that the rav wants you and your husband's company every shabbos, and that he thinks of you both as positive influences and excellent guests that he wants to bring to his table? Don't assume he thinks of you as a "project," but rather as erliche yidden who he wants to positively impact his other guests.

At the same time, it's not your job to take part in that every week. If you *do* enjoy eating by him, why not say "could we have a standing invitation to come one Shabbos a month?" Perhaps tell the rav that you want to also take part in the mitzvah of hachnasas orchim by hosting your own guests.

I think it's similar to when I get invited by a rebbetzin to come to a challah baking class aimed at the non-frum women in the community. I can bake challah in my sleep so I don't want or need to go to a class where I'm going to be taught how to separate challah and braid it, but it's also a beautiful thing to participate in. Or an "intro to mikvah" class. Totally don't need that personally, but I don't assume if the rebbetzin invites me that she thinks I don't go to the mikvah.

You have a right to enjoy shabbos in your own house on your own terms, but by not taking it personally and instead focusing on the mitzvah of hachnasas orchim that the rav is demonstrating to you, it might feel a little less irritating and more meaningful when you do go to him. (Not meaning this to be musser-y at all-- just the way I try to think of these things. My husband and I come from a similar background to you.)
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WhatFor




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 8:34 am
I love imasinger's response and I agree that there's no real reason to assume that he's inviting you as a nebach.
Sounds like he's someone who loves socializing so much he has no concept of people who don't enjoy that so he thinks you must be being polite when you say no. Imasinger's response handles that well.
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amother
Brown


 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 9:02 am
OP here....

Yes he definitely does enjoy our company. And I feel honored.

But the thing that makes me wonder is that all other people at his table he invites on a regular basis are real nebbach cases (I mean real nebbach!). He never, unlike anyone else in the kehilla who hosts, seems to have anybody "normal" as guests at his table. Or mix it. It is always only real weirdo cases there.
And that pulls me down a lot.

I appreciate his chesed and really appreciate his baseless love towards all difficult cases I the community but I personally do not feel I need it.

And besides that, I do not enjoy their style of seuda (even though this is pretty common in my kehilla here), shlepping for many hours and no dvar torah but all kinds of very shallow Hasidic miracle stories (aka a man didnt have children because he went off the derech. he saw a big rebbe and he became frum and then, oh wonder, he had children....for us that we are still waiting for children that story just felt so dumb) I can only take them in small dosages Smile

I say, yes, once in a few weeks, with pleasure. but not every single shabbos ....

Regarding the eating with family, we do have frum family of my husband pretty close by (3 hours drive) and go there for shabbosim or yamim tovim sometimes.
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Mommastuff




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 9:06 am
amother wrote:
But the thing that makes me wonder is that all other people at his table he invites on a regular basis are real nebbach cases (I mean real nebbach!). He never seems to have anybody "normal" as guests at his table.
And that pulls me down a lot.


this sounds like you are the one that is judging others. Do you think that they think themselves nebach cases like you think they are?

I hate to sound harsh but maybe take a look at yourself first
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 9:08 am
Some people can't imagine having a Shabbos Seudah alone and guest-free- like if there aren't ten+ people around the table, it isn't a meal Smile .

I don't think you have to worry about his feelings when you decline. You sound very polite and if he is "hurt" by you not accepting then it is his problem more than yours. I'm sure they really enjoy your company but that doesn't make you obligated. Sometimes it's just so nice to have that quiet meal for two.
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amother
Brown


 

Post Thu, Jul 13 2017, 9:09 am
Mommastuff: Well, maybe "that" single older man with a severe mental illness they usually also host is not a "nebbach" but I still do not feel comfortable in this company all the time.
He screams at literally everybody. Screams at the kids, at us, at the Rebbetzin (who usually screams back, lol...)...
Yes he is sick and lonely and grumpy and miserable. But I am scared.

Sorry... Sad

Really I am happy problematic people do have a family to eat with but I dont need that stress every single meal... And he scares me. cant do anything against it.
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