Right to decline late shabbos meal requests?

silbergirl

Sat, Jul 15 2017, 1:30 pm

Gut voch,

just wondering if its right to decline Shabbos meal requests pretty last minute. I have seen that several times over the last months and I dont know if its a new thing among newlywed travelers or not to pressure people for shabbos invites/sleepover last minute.

Latest example: I got a message from a young woman on Monday. Dont know her but someone referred her to us. She said she is in my city until after Shabbos and I should suggest sightseeing and places to get Shabbos food (she did NOT ask for invites at that point). I answered her lengthily and also gave her some meal options. She did not respond at all or even say thank you.
Fast forward until Friday, 1:30 PM. She sent me a message if I know if any supermarkets are open. She claimed she couldnt reach any of the 3 numbers for shabbos meals I sent her (dont believe her, all are commercial and one is my boss and he always picks up the phone). I sent her the info and even sent her the private phone number of the local restaurant guy to sign up for Shabbos meals.
Then she asked me bluntly if someone could host them for free. At 2 pm Friday! She had the whole week to ask.
I said no. Dont know anyone who would take so late notice guests.
She didnt even say thank you.

Had the same before Purim, a young couple from abroad asked me three days before Purim if I could set them up. I arranged all meals for them but was unable to set them up for free for sleeping. Asked people but they said if noone knows them and could vouch for them, they wont take them in.
When I told them I arranged meals but couldnt find accommodation, they did not answer. But Taanis Esther afternoon got the message they wont come. Had to tell all people who planned them for meals they said no last minute. Just because I couldnt find a free sleepover.

Is that common? I mean whenever me and my hubby travel, we pay for our own accommodation. We do not even ask for freebies. When I was in sem we were taught to request a meal invite Tuesday or Wednesday the latest!
I do not understand why people can be so rude and think the world is an open free buffet for them...

Deep down I do feel bad because I could not take them for sleepover or do a last minute shabbos meal invite. We are also a young couple and live in a small apartment. We couldnt even host a sleepover couple. Also regarding meals, I want people to request an invite on Wednesday the latest (unless its close friends) so I can plan and shop. We do not have help and I work fulltime (also fridays until noon) and need to plan. I also still suffer from health issues after a miscarriage.
I envy people who have unlimited open tables but I just cant do that.

Am I right to decline it if people ask so late and in such a selfish way?

amother

Rose

Sat, Jul 15 2017, 1:50 pm

Of course you don't owe anyone meals. I'm guessing that you live someplace that's popular with tourists. I don't know why, but some travelers think that the locals are always waiting around to host visitors.

My parents had a house that was open to guests, and so do we. But there's a difference between extending hospitality to strangers and serving as a tour guide and hotel.

silbergirl

Sat, Jul 15 2017, 2:32 pm

Yes, we do live in a place that is super popular with tourists. I do take people for meals but only if they ask me ahead of time and not mamash friday noon where I have everything planned and cooked.
I mean yes, I could prob feed two more people somehow but when I cook for a family shabbos its different than if I have guests.

And I absolutely hate the lack of etiquette. Dont take me wrong, if its a real emergency, they are stranded or meals were canceled on them okay, I take people last minute.
But not if they had plenty of time to plan.
I am neither a free tourguide, last minute free restaurant and hotel, nor Jeff Seidel (the guy that sets ppl up last minute) or a Kiruv rebbetzin :p . I love haknasas orchim but I hate the feeling of being taken advantage of.

ra_mom

Sat, Jul 15 2017, 6:43 pm

I think it's awful that people do this. I'm sorry that you have to deal with this often. It's so foreign to me how some people think that others should fund their vacations.
You are doing the right thing. And being so accommodating and giving to people who ask early even though you have no obligation to do so! Kol Hakavod.

Lani22

Sat, Jul 15 2017, 8:10 pm

ra_mom wrote:

Well said!!

LittleDucky

Sat, Jul 15 2017, 11:42 pm

I totally get you. We have been asked last minute to host someone whose meal was cancelled erev shabbos. I have no issues with that or other emergencies so long as they realize it isn't fancy or "guest food/serving dishes". If I know we are having guests I will try to do an extra clean up...
But I get a little frustrated when people want free food (not our company!) and knew in advance they needed a place. Single people often ask last minute in my experience and it gets frustrating. I ask them to tell me Thursday night at the latest so I can shop on my way home from work or whatnot.

You are not responsible to pay for people's food or vacations. If you are able to, it's nice to help out others but if you feel resentful, overburdened or that you don't have enough for your family then set boundaries! It's great that you helped out people with information and connections to buy food. You are not a hotel!

silbergirl

Sun, Jul 16 2017, 1:13 am

Thanks so much for the replies! I really dont mind hosting (even though its harder on us than on many people because our apartment is small and not fancy and this ashames me, too. And we are not rich and everything, especially meat, is expensive in my neck of the woods) but its the expectations people seem to have.

I have found that more in shana rishona Anglo or Euro couples who are financed to spend shana rishona in Israel than singles, lately. Somehow the expectation just because you are newlywed the whole world is a free buffet for you. Maybe I am wrong. Also, maybe more shana rishona couples decide to travel the world and end up at my city. Cant put my finger on it.

heidi

Sun, Jul 16 2017, 1:14 am

I totally agree with you OP. In fact, a few weeks ago I got a call at 5:30 pm on Friday asking me to host a single woman just for sleeping for Shabbat. B"H we have a guest room that is always ready and the person asking was a good friend, so I agreed.
Turns out that the woman was seriously nuts. She was inappropriate when talking to my children and wouldn't leave Saturday night until my husband explained to her that she had to leave.
The person who asked didn't actually know her.
I learned my lesson. I will only host if I know the person personally or someone I trust knows them .
And people like that don't ask at the last minute.

amother

Mistyrose

Sun, Jul 16 2017, 1:36 am

silbergirl wrote:

Gut voch,

just wondering if its right to decline Shabbos meal requests pretty last minute. I have seen that several times over the last months and I dont know if its a new thing among newlywed travelers or not to pressure people for shabbos invites/sleepover last minute.

Latest example: I got a message from a young woman on Monday. Dont know her but someone referred her to us. She said she is in my city until after Shabbos and I should suggest sightseeing and places to get Shabbos food (she did NOT ask for invites at that point). I answered her lengthily and also gave her some meal options. She did not respond at all or even say thank you.
Fast forward until Friday, 1:30 PM. She sent me a message if I know if any supermarkets are open. She claimed she couldnt reach any of the 3 numbers for shabbos meals I sent her (dont believe her, all are commercial and one is my boss and he always picks up the phone). I sent her the info and even sent her the private phone number of the local restaurant guy to sign up for Shabbos meals.

Then she asked me bluntly if someone could host them for free. At 2 pm Friday! She had the whole week to ask.
I said no. Dont know anyone who would take so late notice guests.
She didnt even say thank you.
Had the same before Purim, a young couple from abroad asked me three days before Purim if I could set them up. I arranged all meals for them but was unable to set them up for free for sleeping. Asked people but they said if noone knows them and could vouch for them, they wont take them in.

When I told them I arranged meals but couldnt find accommodation, they did not answer. But Taanis Esther afternoon got the message they wont come. Had to tell all people who planned them for meals they said no last minute. Just because I couldnt find a free sleepover.

Is that common? I mean whenever me and my hubby travel, we pay for our own accommodation. We do not even ask for freebies. When I was in sem we were taught to request a meal invite Tuesday or Wednesday the latest!

I do not understand why people can be so rude and think the world is an open free buffet for them...

Deep down I do feel bad because I could not take them for sleepover or do a last minute shabbos meal invite. We are also a young couple and live in a small apartment. We couldnt
even host a sleepover couple. Also regarding meals, I want people to request an invite on
Wednesday the latest (unless its close friends) so I can plan and shop. We do not have help
and I work fulltime (also fridays until noon) and need to plan. I also still suffer from health
issues after a miscarriage.
I envy people who have unlimited open tables but I just cant do that.

Am I right to decline it if people ask so late and in such a selfish way?

There r many types of people populating this world. The "lates and the "earlys", the organized and the free-for-all. The tactful types, and those who were not blessed with tact. The grateful type and the types that feel as they say in Hebrew, "magia li."
just a few examples.
Some of the types that we view as negative, are not even aware that what they are doing is not right.

We can't always change people's behaviour and their way of thinking.

But, what we can work on and change, is OUR behaviour and way of thinking.

It's important for a person to know their limits.

If you are an early type person and have to know by Wednesday who your Shabbos guests are in order to be able to plan accordingly and b/c of your strength and really it doesn't matter for whatever reaso: if this is important for you, and you have made that known to whoever the people are who send guests your way.
You should stand on your limits and rules.
It is a big mitzvah to host people, but it's also a big mitzvah to think of yourself and do what's good for you.

I've found from experience that when I didn't go acc. to my limits and set down the rules that are good for me be'H, then I just ended up tired and resentful of the guests who I was hosting.
Which really defeats the purpose.

I do the same with my dear married children. I'm also an early type and cannot work under last minute pressure. They know that they have to tell me by Wednesday if they want to come for Shabbos.
Don't mistake me - I LOVE having my children and grandchildren over. With my married children, they participate in Shabbos seudah preps. by bringing a salad, kugel ... .
Every Mummy is responsible for her kinderlach to tidy up after her and make sure that kiddies aren't pulling the items out of the kitchen cabinets and other cupboards in the home, or touching something that belong to dh.
And after Shabbos, everyone pitches in with cleaning up, unless s/o really cannot for good reason.

I don't say these rules work like clockwork every time, but, I try very much B'ezras Hashem, to make sure everyone knows them.
I also don't stand like a policewoman over everyone. They do it themselves.
I told them I don't want to be a policewoman and look what everyone is doing or not doing.
I hate that.
I very much try that the atmosphere here should be easygoing and enjoyable, but, within the limits.

When I follow these rules, we we have a happy Shabbos b'H with all.

I daven a lot to Hashem to Help me do what is good for me, what is good for the other w/out treading on myself, and mainly what Hashem wants from us.

Hope this helps. And lots of hatzlocha, and Refuah Sheleimah.

amother

Slategray

Sun, Jul 16 2017, 4:55 am

Frankly, in the first example, it's very likely that the woman was fishing for an invite from her very first request asking where she can find food for shabbos. It's hard to ask straight out for someone to host you. She probably waited until Friday when she was really backed into a corner and desperate.

In general, many single people who've never had to prepare shabbos for their family and guests and don't know how much effort goes into it are far less sensitive. We've occasionally had single people request invites and then not show.

I don't quite know what to make of the couple on erev Purim. All I can think of is that many Purim seudos that are guest-centric have dozens of people coming in and out ALL day, and one couple would barely be noticed, let alone missed. So perhaps they assumed you were setting them up at a meal like that.

By the way, I sympathize with you completely. I feel flustered by last minute guests. I always ask last minute guests to bring something that would make it easier for me and sometimes they have to make their own beds up. People have only ever been grateful to have somewhere to stay and were happy to contribute.

Ruchel

Sun, Jul 16 2017, 4:56 am

You're not a hotel.

silbergirl

Sun, Jul 16 2017, 7:33 am

amother wrote:

It was also a couple but the woman did all the communication Smile

but yeah, sounded like she planned it like that. I mean, if she would have commented on my suggestions on Monday (!) already when I sent them to her first, stating that they cant afford a restaurant or the Chabad house seuda, I could have at least asked around if someone could take them (we have a haknassas orchim group). Or take them myselves. But when she asks last minute, friday at 2pm, pressuring me that they have to eat their shabbat meal in the hotel, there is not much I could have done. Its even too late to ask among most of the haknasas orchim group people (of whom most are not even in town now because its vacation time).

Its fairly unfair IMHO to request information a long time beforehand and then ask for hosting so close to shabbos

amother

Gray

Sun, Jul 16 2017, 8:30 am

I don't get it.

When we go on vacation we plan ahead to make sure we can buy Shabbos food at our destination or we bring along. It can be fun to figure out how to make a nice meal in the hotel room. Sometimes we show up to shul and people invite us for lunch but we decline graciously.

The only time we've ever looked for hosts is when DH travels for business and can't make it home for Shabbos. Often the hotel the firm puts him up in is nowhere near a Jewish community so if he wants to go to shul on Shabbos then he has to find someone to host him Friday night. We usually try to find a family connection in the area and arrange things as far in advance as possible. I try to send a hostess gift with DH or he'll pick up something at the destination. A few times we couldn't find a family connection so DH called the local Chabad or kollel to find accommodations. They were always lovely and we made sure to make a donation to thank them as well.

silbergirl

Sun, Jul 16 2017, 9:56 am

Thats what me and my husband are doing, too!

amother

Slategray

Sun, Jul 16 2017, 10:28 am

silbergirl wrote:

It was also a couple but the woman did all the communication Smile

How interesting--between the two of them they should've mustered up the guts and figured out a more forward way to ask for an invite Rolling Eyes

I agree that they went about it in an immature and really unsuccessful way, if they were indeed fishing for an invite, and it's not your problem to compensate. Why should you have a stressful shabbos?
Btw, are you 'known' for having an open house to guests?

silbergirl

Sun, Jul 16 2017, 1:00 pm

amother wrote:

Btw, are you 'known' for having an open house to guests?

Not exactly known for it but I am the only one people from my extended seminary circles usually know who lives where I am living. I am European and all in my sem mate circle are basically American or Anglo Israelis. My city is a big tourist hotspot. So if people ask around they are usually redirected to me.