Day camp "bunk"? | Imamother

Dandelion1

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 7:18 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

I'm going to be traveling east at the end of the summer and I'll need to remind myself not to outwardly grimace when I hear these particular manifestations of the Yinglish dialect.

Do you grimace (outwardly or otherwise) when you hear black vernacular English spoken?

amother

Mustard

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 7:25 pm

aleph wrote:

I guess I'm trying to understand if it is all vernacular dialects that are intolerable, or just Jewish ones....?

I would grimace if my children, whose great- grandparents spoke English as a first language, started to speak 'yinglish'. Actually, I wouldn't allow it in my house.

Amelia Bedelia

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 7:51 pm

amother wrote:

Interchanging borrow and lend isn't so common in the frum world. There are many Yiddishisms used in the community I live in. This isn't one of them. In Yiddish borrowing (burgen) and lending (fahrlayin) are completely different words. It is in Hebrew where L'halovos can mean either one that causes this misspeak.

The only people I hear confuse Hebrew and English are Yeshiva bochurim who spend the entire day learning from Hebrew texts. For someone immersed the whole day in Hebrew, English really isn't a second language.

For their part Yeshiva Bochrim don't consider their colloquialisms and idioms to be English. As in the song "Yeshivshe raid"

I live in Brooklyn and am surrounded amd exposed to many Yiddish speakers, and have never heard the word fahrlayin to mean lend. All the Yiddish speakers I know use "bargen" interchangeably, as in "kenst mir bargen an ayer?". It's possible that fahrlayin is more correct, but Brooklyn chassidim don't seem to use the term. Brooklyn Yiddish also has its own dialect, mixed in with plenty of English (window instead of fenster, cross'n [di gas] instead of aribergein, potaita instead of kartuffel, etc.).

MagentaYenta

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 7:58 pm

aleph wrote:

Do you grimace (outwardly or otherwise) when you hear black vernacular English spoken?

I grimace inwardly whenever I hear poor grammar, the color of the person has nothing to do with it.

33055

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 8:09 pm

aleph wrote:

Do you grimace (outwardly or otherwise) when you hear black vernacular English spoken?

The inner city black youths I knew could turn it on and off at will. Perhaps TV, the movies, and their teachers have helped them. I was involved in a jobs placement project. They spoke more of a slang than a deeply embedded language pattern.

Some of the frum people in Monsey are more or less in a closed society without influence of TV, movies, and now the internet. The teachers, for the most part, speak the exactly the same.

Dandelion1

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 8:10 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

I grimace inwardly whenever I hear poor grammar, the color of the person has nothing to do with it.

I asked if you grimaced when hearing the black vernacular dialect spoken, I didn't say anything about anyone's color.

shanie5

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 8:10 pm

Chicken breasts, tops, white meat-all mean the same thing
Bottoms, legs quarters, dark meat-all the same
Skinless boneless chicken breast, chicken cutlets, boned breasts-all the same
Capon-a rooster with its reproductive parts removed-average size 10-12 lbs
Pargiot, baby chicken, skinless boneless leg quarters-all the same
Cornish hen-a full grown, but very small chicken (not a baby chicken)

I went to skipped kindergarten and went to pre 1A. My grandson was in Primary this year and will be in 1st grade in the fall.

I wore a knapsack, my kids use backpacks.

My dd is a counselor of a bunk in day camp.

And my hispanic coworker likes me 'more better' than his last coworker.

leah233

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 8:16 pm

Amelia Bedelia wrote:

I grew up speaking to my grandparents in (Litvish) Yiddish "layin"(pronounced lahyen) was the word used for lending. Farlayin was used as a verb for lending.

Last edited by leah233 on Tue, Jul 18 2017, 8:18 pm; edited 2 times in total

MagentaYenta

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 8:16 pm

aleph wrote:

I asked if you grimaced when hearing the black vernacular dialect spoken, I didn't say anything about anyone's color.

Like I said I grimace inwardly whenever I hear poor grammar, regardless of the source. You were the one who played the race card.

amother

Magenta

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 8:17 pm

This is actually a fascinating topic. I am part of the Chassidishe community in Montreal. We speak Canadian English with some French influences. What Americans call preschool is called garderie and the babysitting group is a pouponnerie....

Dandelion1

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 8:25 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Like I said I grimace inwardly whenever I hear poor grammar, regardless of the source. You were the one who played the race card.

Nope, not a race card. I just chose the most recognizable example of another English dialect spoken by an historically segregated ethnicity.

Dandelion1

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 8:39 pm

Squishy wrote:

To you it may have sounded like slang, but the African American vernacular is completely rule-based, with its own fully functioning and consistently applied grammar.

And being able to "turn it on and off at will" is not really any sort of measure of the relative value of the dialect itself.

33055

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 9:03 pm

aleph wrote:

Again, I am not an expert. But the people I worked with did not write in black English. They could speak formal English when the situation called for it. They commonly spoke a street language but could clean it up at will. They cleaned it up for the job market, so that means formal English had some monetary value.

slang
slaNG/Submit
noun
1.
a type of language that consists of words and phrases that are regarded as very informal, are more common in speech than writing, and are typically restricted to a particular context or group of people.

amother

Papaya

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 10:07 pm

amother wrote:

What about "I'm not in the mood of doing dishes". Is that slang, English as a second language, regional usage, frum speak, or 'what you are talking about, that's how everyone talks'.

I feel stupid, but what exactly is wrong with the above sentence? Can someone please explain? TIA.

CatLady

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 10:10 pm

Code switching is what we're discussing. I do it at work, referring to a certain not-particularly-beloved co-worker as a "bimbette" when it's a mixed group but calling her a "tzatzkaleh" to my people.

amother

Mustard

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 10:43 pm

amother wrote:

I feel stupid, but what exactly is wrong with the above sentence? Can someone please explain? TIA.

I'm not a grammar wizard, so I can't tell you what is technically wrong. If it is? The linguists here would say 'no such thing as wrong'.

However - 'in the mood of' is not a common phrase (Try googling it).

"In the mood for" or "in the mood to" are common phrases.

So is the statement "No, I'm not in the mood" (referring to something asked of you to do).

MagentaYenta

Tue, Jul 18 2017, 11:22 pm

amother wrote:

I feel stupid, but what exactly is wrong with the above sentence? Can someone please explain? TIA.

Of, for and to are all prepositions. And even though they are all parts of speech called prepositions, each word has a different meaning. Ergo a different usage. So if you looked up the word of in a thesaurus it would not say for or to. When words have different meanings they are not interchangeable. Once you know the parts of speech you can understand how a word functions grammatically and in meaning.

I hope this helped a bit. English is supposedly one of the most difficult of languages for a non English speaker to learn. My mother was fluent in English but didn't quite understand the functions of the parts of the language. When I first learned how to diagram sentences she was enthralled. Suddenly a sentence could be more visually than just words on paper and the placement of the words and syntax began to make sense to her.