Why is sinas chinam so bad? Connection to beis hamikdash?

PinkFridge

Wed, Jul 19 2017, 2:02 pm

It's not either/or.
I'm thinking of the question posed, what is the most important pasuk in the Torah. One said, Shema. Another said, V'ahavta l'reiacha kamocha. IOW one felt that bein odom laMakom should be our focus, another, bein odom lachaveiro. The "winner" was, v'seh hatamid, about the korban tamid that the kohen brought morning and evening. The underlying theme is, that despite the utter quotidian routines of it all, the kohen still brought it each time with freshness and not the rut you would think.

And it's not just Bayis Sheini. You can ask the same question about Bayis Rishon, which was destroyed because of the aveiros that led to complete societal disintegration.

And of course, there is also the concept of not saying birchas haTorah, iow studying Torah as an intellectual pursuit but not learning it to the point it becomes a part of you.

I have to think through this more. I'll read the rest of the thread.
Oh, this is the rest of the thread.
Looking forward to how it develops.

amother

Chocolate

Wed, Jul 19 2017, 3:13 pm

Thank you.
To give this context, I am speaking to a group of unaffiliated women, most of whom have never heard of Tisha Bav. I do like to have more background knowledge, so I will look for that book in my shul library.
I'm trying to understand what "chinam" means. Usually, when I don't like someone I have a good reason lol...Im sure I learned this at some point. It's embarrassing that I don't understand these basic concepts.

amother

Gold

Wed, Jul 19 2017, 3:21 pm

When you hate someone for no reason, you are ignoring the fact that he too was created betzelem elokim. Hashem created us all, and if we don't love all of His creatures, we are essentially denying that they were created by Hashem. In which case, why bother with all the korbanos, if you haven't got the basic belief that Hashem created the universe.

The neviim achronim railed against korbanos and fasting where there is no social justice. That's what they meant. If you can't create a just society and show kindness to the downtrodden, you've missed the point. (All too often, we shy away from this because it's been co-opted by non-Orthodox movements, but the truth is the truth.)

amother

Lime

Wed, Jul 19 2017, 3:41 pm

You might explain with as story as a moshol of how a parent can forgive their children many mistakes as long as the children love one another. So too, Hashem forgives klal Yisroel many things - even idol worship of Achav's generation, He helped them win all their wars because they had achdus.

I hope I am remembering this correctly.

I think that in the end the immediate reason for the churban was the inter-fighting which caused the Sikrikim to burn all the stores of grain, as there was enough food to withstand a siege until the Romans would have given up.

Rabbi YY Jacobson has a fascinating explanation of "anvesonuso shel Zechariah ben Avkilus" - really a must-hear for anyone who wants to talk about any topic in the 3 weeks. And since I've been telling everyone I know about this shiur, I guess I will go anonymous.
Shiur - it's a long shiur but well worth listening to (I download them to an mp3 and listen on 'fast')

iyar

Wed, Jul 19 2017, 3:43 pm

amother wrote:

When you hate someone for no reason, you are ignoring the fact that he too was created betzelem elokim.

If you can't create a just society and show kindness to the downtrodden, you've missed the point. (All too often, we shy away from this because it's been co-opted by non-Orthodox movements, but the truth is the truth.)

I don't find we shy away from this. What we shy away from is putting the emphasis on ONE part of the Torah or on one Mitzvah and disregarding the rest.

Non-Orthodox movements like certain quotations- "Tzedek tzedek tirdof" comes to mind. (Of course "tzedek" in this case means whatever they consider to be just and moral according to the prevailing atmosphere and current societal norms.) They like to talk about things that are fashionable and sound pc. Being kind to others makes the cut and appears often in their sermons, closely followed by tikkun olam. (Of course we aspire, according to them, to be metakein the olam in an image that is perfectly pc.)

We actually do believe strongly that tzedek (justice and honesty), tzedaka & chessed (charity and kindness to others), and tikkun olam (repairing the world and bringing it to a state of shleimus and closeness to HKB"H) are integral parts of our Avodas Hashem.
We do believe that Ahavas Chinam is the antidote for the sinas chinam that led to the churban and to the state of galus we find ourselves in.
The difference in our approach is that we also believe that observing Shabbos, refraining from wearing shatnez, refraining from forbidden intimate relationships, not eating shellfish, eating matzah on Pesach and blowing shofar on Rosh Hashana, all these (and more) are also part of our Avodas Hashem. We don't prioritize one over the other, but try to incorporate them all into our daily lives.

amother

Gold

Wed, Jul 19 2017, 3:48 pm

iyar wrote:

I didn't say we don't believe it. I said we shy away from it. We don't like talking about it. Just because some groups choose this to the exclusion of other mitzvos doesn't mean we should relegate it to the back burner. The neviim more or less said, stop with the frumkeit till you get the basics. Of course we're supposed to keep halacha in all its minutiae. But we lose a lot when we don't see the bigger picture.

tichellady

Wed, Jul 19 2017, 4:00 pm

amother wrote:

Yes. I couldn't believe what the neviim say when I actually started reading them myself post-school. It's not surprising to me how someone reading Isaiah could conclude that the ritual law should be on the back burner, since that's what he seems to clearly say!

iyar

Wed, Jul 19 2017, 4:03 pm

amother wrote:

I understand what you're saying. Totally agree about not relegating it to the back burner.
But what's in the "bigger picture"? How do we know what's minute and what's huge? We don't!

The big picture is the whole Torah containing the entirety of Halacha. In our own lives we have to do our best to find balance between all our different responsibilities and try not to neglect any of them.

Halacha covers the minutiae of how to allocate you tzedaka dollars, how to comfort your grieving friend, how to avoid hurting your neighbor by speaking unkindly about her, and how to chop your salad vegetables on Shabbos.

It's all part of the same "big picture". We don't have a back burner or a front burner. More like one big oven. We mix all the ingredients carefully, try to bake at an even temperature, and hope for great results.

tigerwife

Wed, Jul 19 2017, 7:21 pm

amother wrote:

Those chassidim..
Those Lakewood people...
Those modern people....
Those yeshivish people...
Those Sephardim...
Those Jews...

Take your pick or come up with your own. Our society has created its own version of racism within our own race. When you clump people together, you can't have a valid reason for hating every one of them.

Raindropsonrose

Wed, Jul 19 2017, 9:55 pm

amother wrote:

But I'm searching for the connection between the beis hamikdash, which is seemingly about avodah to Hashem, and sinas chinam, which is bein adam lchavero.

I think it's exactly the point. There are people who think that bein adam l'Makom and bein adam l'chaveiro are two separate facets, and as long as you're good in one area, you can let things slide in the other. I think tisha b'Av is there to tell us that service of G-d is worthless is we don't also have love and respect for our fellow man. You can't separate out the two, because when you do, you become disconnected from G-d.

PinkFridge

Thu, Jul 20 2017, 8:17 am

Re the meaning of sinas chinam, we think of chinam as free, gratuitous. What I've heard over the years is this: People had reasons for hating each other and they thought they were pretty good reasons. But they really weren't. They were petty and we should be better people who are above hating people for such reasons. They were too exacting and judgmental in their expectations of others (and not enough on themselves).

iyar

Thu, Jul 20 2017, 2:12 pm

ima

livinginflatbus wrote:

I think sinas chinum is one of our biggest problems today . There are many organizations that promote so many things like tznius and not speaking lashon hara and people really became more vigilant in those areas . Unfortunately I find that loving a fellow Jew unconditionally is hard to find . People are very quick to judge and condemn people whose lifestyles differs from them

You find what you look for.
You found organizations that promote tznius and not speaking lashon hara.
You're disappointed not to find organizations promoting loving Jews unconditionally?
It's hard to create an organization to promote a feeling. It's hard to measure or assess the emotions in other people's hearts and the thoughts in their heads.
In my own community I know of zero tznius organizations and one promoting shmiras halashon. There are, however, more organizations than I can count in charge of visiting the sick, helping needy families (with everything from food to summer camp for the kids), helping new young couples with wedding expenses and household expenses, helping mothers of multiples. I could go on and on. None of these organizations check the crease in your hat or the bangs on your sheitel. Have you heard of Yad Sarah in Israel who supply medical equipment free of charge to everyone (including non-Jews)? Do you know there are gemachs for everything from wedding gowns to dehumidifiers to leaf blowers in Lakewood (and they won't ask you what nusach you daven or even if you davened today)?
I had the unenviable task of reaching out to local organizations to help a young couple I know. They're newcomers in my community (both geographically and due to being BT) and suddenly found themselves dealing with a catastrophic illness affecting their child. I was overwhelmed, as were they, by the services and kindnesses provided with unbelievable sensitivity and generosity.
What are all these organizations for if not reaching out with love, kindness and caring?
Unconditional love for fellow-Jews is hard to find?
Please, we're in the three weeks and next week is Rosh Chodesh Av. Please don't say such terrible things about your fellow Jews. I see a lot of love and a lot of caring. If it's not apparent in these pages then that's very sad. But that doesn't mean it's not out there.