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5 year-old does not help.
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amother
Pearl


 

Post Sun, Jul 23 2017, 10:06 pm
Most of the time. He gets off doing very little. It frustrates us to no end. He will give 1001 reasons why he can't, if I offer an incentive he suddenly doesnt like the thing anymore. He doesnt like the consequences of not helping--I.e. not getting the prize/treat/extra play time, but does little to change his behavior. His 18 month-older brother does help and I reward him, but then 5 y/o son complains that its "not fair that he always gets xyz" but its like he helped, you didnt. All he wants to do is play, play, play. If he does clean up, its "his mess and that's it"--wont clean up if a friend came over and made the mess, or he'll do a small fraction of his own mess saying the rest is too hard. Or he wont do it unless "somebody"--I.e. me, helps I've tried saying no playdates here unless you clean up--doesnt do anything. I've tried explaining to him that mommy does a lot in the household--cooking, cleaning, shopping, laundry, etc. I cant sit with him and clean up every single toy. Or that I have other things to do.Then he complains some more.
My elder son thinks its unfair that he does everything or will lose privelages (I.e. ive threatened to put legos away for 3 days if they dont contain the mess. but I say that only elder can play. its too difficult to enforce) younger son wont help. My younger daughter is more helpful than he is, but is picking up on some of his bad habits. Im also expecting and its getting harder on me to constantly bend down/sit on the floor. I'm running out of ideas!
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amother
Turquoise


 

Post Sun, Jul 23 2017, 10:11 pm
It sounds like he may find it overwhelming. Have you tried breaking cleanup down into more manageable tasks? Alternatively, I will tell my kids that everyone needs to pick up ten things and put them in their place. Repeat as many times as necessary until it's reasonably clean. Also, I don't see why he has to clean up his friends mess either. He and friend should clean up together before friend leaves, or a parent can help out. At this point you want to teach him responsibility for his own cleanup- beyond that is too much for his developmental stage.
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das




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 23 2017, 10:12 pm
Do you mean helping or cleaning up after himself?

5 year olds are too young to clean up after themselves unaided. It feels overwhelming. Work together to I.e. pick up the legos.
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 12:10 am
amother wrote:
I will tell my kids that everyone needs to pick up ten things and put them in their place. Repeat as many times as necessary until it's reasonably clean.


I do the above. Sometimes I put on a 5-minute timer and we challenge ourselves (kids & I work together) to get everything off the floor. Try to make it something kind of fun. After he gets used to being part of the action as a team, maybe eventually will be easier for him to clean up even when it's just him working. Can also say, after we clean up, then we'll read the book - like some positive thing that will happen afterward.
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amother
Pearl


 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 12:50 am
I will do that, I will tell him just pick up just the blocks or pick between cars or legos--he gives excuses or says help me, or its too hard, or something. The thing about his "friends'" messes--often I dont catch the mess until after the friend leaves, or he was playing too, or I will offer to help him, but he either does like the last few items--or none at all. He also tends to be very demanding, but when I try to explain how we both need to help each other, he does not seem to get it. Like today I wanted help to organize their room and if we did a good job, we would go for ice cream--" I dont like cream." when he wanted a fidget spinner we told him, first lets clean up, then we'll get the spinner, he kept begging to get it first then he'd help--but he almost never does.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 7:37 am
When he tells you it's too hard, say something like I hear you are saying it is too hard. Which part is too hard? Some kids are definitely less compliant. I wouldn't try to bribe him in any way, but if you have to clean up after him, it's understandable if you can't do something else for him later.

I personally wouldn't do playdates at your house if it is an additional problem.
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amother
Pearl


 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 8:28 am
saw50st8 wrote:
When he tells you it's too hard, say something like I hear you are saying it is too hard. Which part is too hard? Some kids are definitely less compliant. I wouldn't try to bribe him in any way, but if you have to clean up after him, it's understandable if you can't do something else for him later.

I personally wouldn't do playdates at your house if it is an additional problem.


We've been working on "using your words to tell me which part is hard"--but doesn't get us very far. I don' t do play dates often--especially not for him at our house, but its his overall attitude that "If its not my doing, I won't do it." He just doesn't want to stop playing--ever. I cannot figure out a good way to motivate him that sometimes we need to stop playing, organize our stuff and then we can do more.
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amother
Bisque


 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 8:59 am
Wacky idea.
Read labels for laibel.
My kids used to refer to it and recall it when asked to help. Also reinforce its family mess or family chores not his or hers or urs or mine. When mine would flat our refuse I would hold their hand and say lets do it together and shlep them thru it...even if they didn't bend down at least they weren't off playing.
Another idea. At dinner "we are all go n.a. choose one thing to work on this wk ...(u say what u will work on first ex having dinner ready at 6pm or playing a game every day with the kids...) start with more reliable ones and try steer this one to work on helping clean up...then u can re evaluate every day..."how we all doing with what we are working on "
Or do stickers on fridge for when u do what he working on. 5 stickers is a prize...etc
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 9:16 am
I have the same set up
my oldest DD (6) is so helpful and when asked to clean up after herself, she basically just does it.
my 4 year old loves to play, loves to dump out everything and loves to take out everything at once and make as she calls it 'a toy salad'
we have tried everything also!

I realized its just too overwhelming for me to say to her 'please clean up what you played with'
I started breaking down every single task, in addition to telling her I will help her.
for example I will say
Please put away 10 magna tiles in the box and I will come help you after.
Please pick up all the markers and then I will help you will the crayons
I am putting on the timer for 2 minutes lets see who can put away more stuff, me or you!!!

and if after all your ideas dont work, this may sound harsh, I would tell my kids that we are putting away some toys in storage until we learn how to clean.
(thats what we tell our kids when they say there is nothing to do...)

good luck
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amother
Pearl


 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 9:19 am
amother wrote:
Wacky idea.
Read labels for laibel.
My kids used to refer to it and recall it when asked to help. Also reinforce its family mess or family chores not his or hers or urs or mine. When mine would flat our refuse I would hold their hand and say lets do it together and shlep them thru it...even if they didn't bend down at least they weren't off playing.
Another idea. At dinner "we are all go n.a. choose one thing to work on this wk ...(u say what u will work on first ex having dinner ready at 6pm or playing a game every day with the kids...) start with more reliable ones and try steer this one to work on helping clean up...then u can re evaluate every day..."how we all doing with what we are working on "
Or do stickers on fridge for when u do what he working on. 5 stickers is a prize...etc


*sigh* I tried that book. We even made it a big trip to go to the store and get the book. He likes the book we read it fairly often, he just doesn't get the message. I don't know about the sticker chart, in his mind its only fair, if we ALL do the same thing at the same time, but then when everyone else is working, he's coming up with other reasons why he can't do it, and then when we stop and take a break, he doesn't want to b/c he needs other people to "help" him.

mind you he's a smart boy, I had him tested last year when this issue started, he has no motor delays either.
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amother
Turquoise


 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 9:57 am
Is this an issue at school too, or only at home? If only at home, he may be doing it because he knows he can get way with it. If he's not cleaning up at school either, he very likely is missing the skills to do so.

You can break it down even further,and have the whole family including you do the same task. Example:

Job #1! Everyone pick up two cars!
Job #2! Everyone pick up two magna tiles!
Job #3! Everyone pick up two mentchies!
Job #4! Everyone pick up two cars again!

Etc etc.
Don't promise anything beforehand, but at the end say "since we all did 12 jobs, we all get 12 chocolate chips/ veggie straws/ stickers/ 12 minutes of mommy reading books/ playing outside"
Change up the reward, and keep it a secret until the end.
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 10:15 am
He's five. He doesn't need to help you organize his room. At this age, if he puts his leftovers in the garbage, and cleans up his own messes and can do things for himself independently, dress himself etc. Then he is doing great. If you lay it on too thick, if you guilt trip him with how much you do, he will have a lifetime aversion to household chores. No at five you don't need to "help each other". I get that you have alot on your plate but at five it is not his responsibility to help you. Find another way.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 10:20 am
So you have 4 young kids with a 5th on the way and you sound overwhelmed, understandably. It sounds like he's overwhelmed by the blanket phrase clean up so you have to help teach him in baby steps without making it into a constant fight. Can your dh help pick up the small toys when he gets home if it's hard for you? Mine does.
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 10:22 am
One of my children is like that and she's 6. She tries to get away with doing as little as possible. However, I do know that when I say the word "clean up", it is way to overwhelming for her. She wont really know where to start.

My husband is the same way. If I want him to organize something, I have to help him a lot, or he will be too overwhelmed to continue to the next step. My garage has been a mess with his garbage for so long. Once a week I gave him a job in the garage- shlep a few things, go through stuff to see if they were garbage...finally it looks decent. My husband happens to be very smart, successful, and always looks very put together. Organization is just a weakness that he has.

If I really want her to clean up (and learn skills that dh doesn't have Wink, I do the following
1) Firstly, show her that I'm serious. I will be on top of you and make sure its done. Not the clean up when your done line that I don't follow up on
2) Start her off. Either I tell her which toy to clean first, arrange bins to make it easier to find, or start putting away a toy. This is what can really get her going. If I don't organize her, she probably wont clean up.
3) Count. I tell her what I'm counting to and give plenty of time so that if she cleans up without constantly stopping, she'll be excited that there is still time left. If your child doesn't know how to count up to 100 and doesn't understand the higher numbers as well, you can count down to 1.

My 4 year old has an easier time with cleanup, but I do this with him as well.

anon because I don't like to bash my husband
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 10:43 am
Zehava wrote:
He's five. He doesn't need to help you organize his room. At this age, if he puts his leftovers in the garbage, and cleans up his own messes and can do things for himself independently, dress himself etc. Then he is doing great. If you lay it on too thick, if you guilt trip him with how much you do, he will have a lifetime aversion to household chores. No at five you don't need to "help each other". I get that you have alot on your plate but at five it is not his responsibility to help you. Find another way.


This. This. This.

He's FIVE. At five, my DD didn't dress herself, and she "helped" me pick up a few token toys. At 18 B"AH, she cooks half my Shabbos (voluntarily) and calls me to see if I need her to do my shopping on the way home.

One of the principal aspects of Chinuch, as taught by R' Yaakov Kaminetsky, is that we give jobs to kids not because we need their help, but because we want to prepare them for their future B"EH. As such, we don't need the help of our five year old, and we don't give him jobs that are beyond his pay grade capabilities. We just give him age-appropriate little tasks, that increase gradually according to his ability, so that B"EH when he grows up he's a capable adult.

Your child is telling you that your expectations are not realistic for him. You need to adjust to his reality. Show him that the adults in his life understand him.
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oliveoil




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 10:51 am
You have unrealistic, unhealthy expectations, op. He seems bigger than he is to you because you already have 2 under him and another on the way. But he's still just 5 and needs to be treated as such.
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 10:54 am
I understand you OP. my child does the same thing. unpacks all toys at once but the minute I say it's clean up time he has no patienct/koach to clean up. I don't need his help cleaning up; it's easier for me to clean it up myself but I feel that he should understand, from a young age, that you make a mess you clean it up. if not at 5 then when? you can't start expecting cleanup at age 10. it needs to be ingrained from a young age. I'm not super rigid about putting every single thing away but a general clean up is basic, IMO.
I've learned some tips here. thanks imas.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 11:13 am
If all he wants to do is play, then you have to find ways to make it a game!

There are some great suggestions here. If it's not fun, he won't do it. He's not ready for "being responsible". Google "fun clean up games" for more ideas.

DD was a super helper when she was little, because she thought it was fun. When she hit age 5, all of that stopped suddenly. I had to get creative to have her take me seriously.

Put on music, work with him, and keep him entertained. "You pick up all the blue toys", etc. Try reframing the situation. Don't call it "cleaning", tell him it's time for toys to go back in their "home".

If you are desperate, get out a plastic garbage bag. Tell him that since he doesn't want his toys to be in their right place anymore, then there are "sad babies" out there who don't have toys. They will take good care of them. Tell him how lucky he is to have toys, and does he want to donate any of them to the sad babies.

You'll be surprised. He'll clean up SO fast! He might even decide he's bored with some of his toys, and want to donate a few to charity!

When it came time to organize DD's toys, she would think hard about which ones were sentimental and special, and which ones she wanted to donate. It made it so easy to keep the clutter to a minimum, and made her feel good about herself for sharing with the sad babies.

It generated the middos of charity and sharing, and at 14 she is still extremely generous. She's involved in charity fundraising, and social work is a top priority for her. Recently I sorted out several bags of her old toys, and donated them to new Olim who came here with literally nothing. Some of these children were so poor that they have never had a toy of their own before. When I told DD about these kids, she burst into tears. She was SO happy that she could help share all of the things she had been taking for granted.
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 12:10 pm
And for those who complain their kids unpack all the toys at once, at five kids don't get that if they unpack too much it'll get too overwhelming. Then when you say they have to clean up their mess it's just too much. Which is why I have a lock on the playroom closet, I only allow them to have as many toys as is manageable for them to clean up, and when they do they get another one. Or it stays for days and the cleaning lady does it. Whichever comes first.
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 24 2017, 12:27 pm
Zehava wrote:
And for those who complain their kids unpack all the toys at once, at five kids don't get that if they unpack too much it'll get too overwhelming. Then when you say they have to clean up their mess it's just too much. Which is why I have a lock on the playroom closet, I only allow them to have as many toys as is manageable for them to clean up, and when they do they get another one. Or it stays for days and the cleaning lady does it. Whichever comes first.


This. Five year olds have trouble understanding tyat dumping all the lego means having to clean it all.
Also if your playroom is cluttered or messy its much more overwhelming to clean up. encourage putting toys away before taking out more. and clear away as much junk and space consuming toys. it makes everything more overwhelming.
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