5 year-old does not help.

amother

Pearl

Mon, Jul 24 2017, 10:45 am

I do try to make it a game--race the timer, race your brother, who can do the most etc.? But then "everything" is "not fair"--for some reason. Pick up 10 things--that helps a little bit--but he often takes me extremely literally and often do like the 10 smallest legos and give up. Remind him not to take everything out--he still does and says that he'll clean up--and then doesn't do it. I'm not expecting him to "do everything" but to have some hand in participating where things go so that he can be accountable and understand the organization system. I.e. lets make a box for cars, and a box for trains so that you CAN put them away on your own. I guess its more frustrating that his attitude is "I can't"--not I'll try, and that he's impossible to hold accountable because he always finds a way to finagle his way out of it. And yes, it is much easier for me to clean up his messes than beg him 50 times, but what kind of chinuch is that? He already has an attitude of "I want it NOW" but I want him to learn the concept of "working together" and that Mommy has limited kochos, time, money, resources--and that if you HELP, then Mommy has more time to spend with you, you have MORE time and space to play, it will be MORE fair when you contribute and then Mommy wants to reward you. For example, he got a toy for his birthday, and my elder son wanted one too, but his birthday isn't for quite some time. I was impressed with his responsibility of cleaning up, doing his summer homework, I was going to present him with the same toy--b/c I thought that he'd earned it. I held back, b/c it would've incited a tantrum from younger son b/c its "not fair". When the adult concept of fair is "you worked, then you earn it" I've told him how "first Mommy goes to work, then she gets money." I have a tape that talks about how EVERYONE works "hard" during the week--and the more we do something, the easier it gets. I just don't seem to be getting anywhere with him!

treestump

Mon, Jul 24 2017, 10:54 am

amother wrote:

He will learn all of that when he's ready to learn it.

You're expecting your child to be way more mature than he is. He's a tiny little boy.

If you try to force him to do this, he will end up resenting cleaning and household chores and give you a very hard time when he gets older.

Take your cues from him. He's not a machine you can program; he's a person.

When he's ready to clean, when he's ready to do this - he will. Not yet. And that's okay. Gentle, age-appropriate chinuch is true, long-lasting chinuch. Pushing a child past what he's ready for is not chinuch, it's poor parenting skills.

amother

Pearl

Mon, Jul 24 2017, 11:07 am

I can appreciate that chinuch concept. The question is it really "unreasonable" with what I'm "expecting"? I mean I know my eldest was learning to clean up from about 15 months of age and my 2.5 year old does clean up in her own simple way. I taught pre-school, even special ed, so to me its strange that he can't clean up a simple toy or abide with simple directive of "please keep your legos contained to the carpet area so that I'm not stepping on them". I mean he did it in school all last year--I never got complaints about his cleaning/lack of cleaning. If anything he tells me "I do all the clean up in school, so I've already done clean up"--but why does he feel compelled to do MORE of his share in school, and not at home? He's always asking for toys, prizes and treats and I think some of these ideas are good incentives, but then he'd rather "not get it" than "work for it." He often likes to race his older brother to get dressed Shabbos morning, but the elder one TRIES and WORKS HARD to do it, and the younger one just complains that "Its not fair that he ALWAYS wins." I enrolled him in an enrichment activity to learn some intro baseball skills, and it was like if it wasn't something that came easily to him then he didn't try and then he "didn't like it."

Chayalle

Mon, Jul 24 2017, 11:15 am

It sounds like he's a very different personality than your oldest. Comparing him to his sibling will likely not have much benefit.

As far as what goes on at school, have you spoken to his teachers? Does he really clean up at school, or is that just his imagination? The fact that you haven't gotten complaints does not mean he cleans up, nor does his view of things mean it's the reality.

It sounds like he may be pitted against his older brother too much...and he's right, it's not fair to him to be in a competition with a child that is older than he is, and more industrious, and always winning. I'd give up too, before I started, if I was always being challenged with such an opponent. Why bother working so hard for nothing? It sounds like he has lost his motivation in the face of too much competition.

Sounds like he needs a strong comfort base, before he will be motivated to move out of it. Try giving him some prizes "just because you love him" for a set period of time, before you try to motivate him to expand his capabilities.

amother

Hotpink

Mon, Jul 24 2017, 11:18 am

I didn't read all the responses but I have a 5 year old and I just would like say that I think the culture or house rules that exist are a big factor. We do cleanup every night before we go to sleep. I let them choose the job they want or sometimes I give out the jobs. Regardless, cleaning up after our day it's non-negotiable as that's the way it goes in our house. What are your rules? What expectations are there that everyone must follow? I would move away from bribes and incentives. He needs to toe the line with an age appropriate task. If the others are being rewarded for good behavior then he can't complain and you should leave his cleanup job for him and tell him that when it's done he can have/get whatever everyone else is getting and next time you expect that he listens right away.

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Jul 24 2017, 11:25 am

I have ADHD. Your son may not, but these kinds of difficulties organizing are related to executive functioning - and some 5 year olds, regardless of ADHD, are less mature with this than others. So here's a tip from my ADHD brain. You said you have baskets for everything. The sorting may actually be too hard for him. You think an organizational system is easier, but actually it's very hard. Get a huge laundry basket and have him just put everything in there. That takes away a lot of thinking, he just tosses the toys in. If later he complains that it's hard to find things in there, you can give him a choice of cleaning up into the big laundry basket or cleaning up by sorting into little baskets, but don't say it unless he does. In year, you can try more sorting into individual boxes, he may be ready then.

amother

Pearl

Mon, Jul 24 2017, 12:13 pm

I'm not trying to compare him to his brother--they are VERY different in a lot of ways, I don't expect him to be like his brother, the comparisons often come from my kids themselves. I do feel like I give him a lot of things unconditionally. I made him an elaborate birthday party, got him the gift he wanted and asked for. But I do want him to develop the work ethic of "earning" and appreciation. Is 5 really too young? In many ways he IS very mature and very smart, which is maybe why I do get ahead of my expectations for him sometimes, but I don't think that he's too young for responsibility, and he just always seems to want to get out of the responsibility. I mean lets say I ask him "pick up the big wooden blocks"--it will often come down to me sitting on the floor with him literally hand-over-hand putting the big wooden blocks away just because he NEEDS my help--and if I Don't help him, then he doesn't have to do it. Otherwise I'm a "mean mommy" who makes him work "TOO HARD"--that's what he says.

Chayalle

Mon, Jul 24 2017, 12:36 pm

amother wrote:

I mean lets say I ask him "pick up the big wooden blocks"--it will often come down to me sitting on the floor with him literally hand-over-hand putting the big wooden blocks away just because he NEEDS my help--and if I Don't help him, then he doesn't have to do it. Otherwise I'm a "mean mommy" who makes him work "TOO HARD"--that's what he says.

That's pretty much how I did cleanup with my kids at that age - I sat on the floor and helped them and they handed me toys or put it into the bin while I did most of it. The idea was that they felt the responsibility to join in the cleanup activity, rather than me doing it while they went on to something else or just sat around. At five, that's what's age appropriate for most kids.

Laiya

Mon, Jul 24 2017, 8:32 pm

amother wrote:

As others have said, at this age my kids wouldn't have more toys accessible to them, than I would mind if they were all dumped all over the floor at once. His assurances regarding his intent to clean up is meaningless.

If legos, magna tiles, trains and race cars, all dumped at once would make too much of a mess for ME to clean up, then I would pick just two or three that are left within the child's reach, put everything else on a high shelf, and rotate them every so often.

If he asks for more toys, you can just say, Which toy would you like to put up on the high shelf before we take down a new one?

Personally I'm very uncomfortable with encouraging competition among siblings (such as having them race each other to clean up more).

What works for me is trying to time things so that the next activity IS the motivator. For example, before I read him his bed-time story, we need to put away the blocks. Or before shabbos party, trip to the park, taking out crayons, whatever, we clean up.

I like this because the "reward" is immediate. Talking about Mommy having more time to play, or the importance of hard work, is way too abstract. I also like it bec. it's not a bribe, just the procedure.

But if this doesn't work, I cut my losses and move on. Hopefully tomorrow will be better.

Don't worry about his "attitude", or you risk a power struggle. Then, no one wins.

Laiya

Mon, Jul 24 2017, 8:49 pm

amother wrote:

Just want to address the bolded. The purpose of birthday celebrations is to make the child feel special. Giving a sibling, whose birthday it was not, the same special present that you just gave the birthday boy, would be very hurtful imo.

It would be undermining the whole purpose of trying to make the birthday boy feel special.

Yes, adults earn money by working hard.

But, even adults, need to feel loved and appreciated, regardless of what we do or don't accomplish.

This is the concept of unconditional love.

And I love Chayalle's suggestion of giving your kids random, UNearned prizes. This sends the message of your unconditional love.