5 year-old does not help.

amother

Floralwhite

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 4:39 am

amother wrote:

It sounds like he may find it overwhelming. Have you tried breaking cleanup down into more manageable tasks? Alternatively, I will tell my kids that everyone needs to pick up ten things and put them in their place. Repeat as many times as necessary until it's reasonably clean. Also, I don't see why he has to clean up his friends mess either. He and friend should clean up together before friend leaves, or a parent can help out. At this point you want to teach him responsibility for his own cleanup- beyond that is too much for his developmental stage.

totally agree. when my kids have friends over to play; before the friends go home, EVERYONE has to clean up together.

Re telling kids - everyone needs to pick up ten toys, pieces of lego e.t.c
I do that with my children and it works beautifully. They get a kick out of counting aloud or on their fingers, each piece they pick up. And usually they pick up more than the appointed amount, and everything gets picked up.

I rarely use "bribery" or prize awards for picking up toys or cleaning one's mess, b/c I want my kids to learn that it is their responsibility. You made a mess, you had a nice time playing: now it's clean up time.
I do compliment after the kid has cleaned up.

With your 5 yr. old: you can try putting him in charge of the cleaning up including he joins in the clean up. Give him an official looking Purim cap to place on his head. Many 5 yr. olds like that. They like to feel important. His job is to make sure that there is not a single lego left on the floor after clean up.
If the other kids resent the attention he is getting, then give them also a chance to be "clean-up officer" or whatever you want to call it.

Best of luck Smile

amother

Teal

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 7:55 am

baby12x wrote:

I would suggest reading "siblings without rivalry" by Adele farber and Elaine mazlish
It can give you tools to deal with the dynamic between the brothers, including the competition, comparing, and "fairness"
What is fair for one is not fair for the other. If one child has a hard time doing something, or takes longer to learn how to do it does not mean that there is something wrong. Just because you're older son was cleaning at this age doesn't mean you're younger son should be

Excellent book, excellent advice. Idk if it will help specifically with this issue, but it will help you avoid locking your children into roles, like Responsible DS, Unhelpful Ds, and understanding why this is harmful.

amother

Pearl

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 11:38 am

amother wrote:

Sorry, but I side with your kid on this one.

I'm the mean one when I ask him to "go get something for me?" or "please put this in the garbage"? I'm supposed to completely let him off the hook when he makes most of the messes but then categorically refuses to clean up 10 items? This is NOT the way I was brought up. My career is in child development, so I'm not oblivious to what is "age-appropriate" in terms of clean up and responsibility. I find it ridiculous that for every little task he expects me to literally hand-over-hand help him. He does this when getting dressed, he does this when I ask him to put his clean clothing away, he does this when I ask him to go get pajamas. But then, Friday the second I walk in the door, he DEMANDS that he take a bath NOW! Or when he's hungry I must feed him NOW!! I'm not trying to "bribe", I'm trying to educate that when we are helpful, we can get more opportunities. when we don't comply, there are consequences. When you keep your legos on the right side of the room, I won't have to step on them. When you put your clothing in the hamper, them Mommy can wash the shirt you like. When you get into pajamas when Mommy asks, you can then get more playtime afterwards, if you make Mommy tell you 2-3 times, then by the time you do it it's bedtime. If you look like you are trying to clean up, then I will be happy to help you. If you are not sure where something goes, I will help you find a place for it.

In general he is all-too-happy to supervise, but then he just "barks out orders" and doesn't actually put anything away. Its affecting the overall morale of the other kids who are picking up on the fact that he often gets away without actually working. You make it sound like I'm a "taskmaster" but I'm just trying to create an environment of helpfulness and responsibility--just like in a preschool classroom, but he won't take any job that I give him. I give him LOTS of attention, and love, and appreciate what he does do, but its like lately he does everything in his power to make us annoyed with him. I don't outright encourage him to "compete" with his brother, but just I can't STOP the older one from doing the right thing by listening and getting ready first, if he wins he "wins"--he doesn't GET anything for "winning". Boys are naturally competitive, and I try to use that natural inclination to get them moving sometimes, but its not like there's a big incentive to do it.

Ftr when it came to the birthday present. I wasn't trying to "take away" from the birthday boy, but acknowledging that it was a cool toy, and that I know he wanted one, but waiting until his birthday would be "cruel", thus, I was trying to make a "fair opportunity" for the elder son to get it in a way that wouldn't take away from the birthday boy. As he himself pointed out that in the past his grandparents also gave him a "consolation" prize at his brother's birthday and this year he didn't. And his birthday falls out close to Chanuka so his brother gets a present then too. I haven't even given it to him yet.

Zehava

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 11:52 am

Congratulations op. You have officially entered a power struggle with your five year old. I don't blame him for not doing anything you ask. If you argue and keep score like this when you are just asking for advice I can only imagine how you come across to him. He is not an adult. He is a little boy who wants to feel like his mommy loves him just because. You are not his preschool teacher. Your home isn't a classroom.
This will only get worse. You will continue on your destructive path, convinced that you are "in the right" and you will lose your child in the process. Lose his trust, his love, and ofcourse any goodwill he may have had. My heart goes out to your little boy whose mommy can't see him simply for the beautiful child that he is. One day he may have the courage to tell you what you have done. But you will still insist that you were right.

amother

Jade

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 11:57 am

It seems that you are too overwrought to read everyone's answers through properly so I have decided to skip the lengthy reply I was about to write.

I just want to point out that that the main problem here actually isn't whether or not your son should or shouldn't be doing certain things, but your angst about the issue. You seem to expect the give and take in a parent-child relationship to be equal. Which is a completely unrealistic expectation at any age though especially with such a young child.

Perhaps you're just giving over the wrong impression, but your posts seems to be devoid of any love towards your child. And he's not doing anything overly difficult, this is just regular kid stuff whereas you're expecting him to act far beyond his years. It might be worth exploring this in therapy, to see where this stems from and ensure that you maintain good, healthy relationships with your children.

amother

Pearl

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 12:14 pm

amother wrote:

I am trying to read the responses--but I don't feel that my perspective is coming across here and I'm made to feel like the victim. Chas v'shalom that I'm not loving my child! I'm not the one who's expecting equality--its him! He's under the impression that if I'm not sitting on the floor with him cleaning up his toys more than him, than I'm a mean mommy. I'm TRYING to give him so much--but when I have to ask him 10 times to do something that I feel is an appropriate task for someone his age and he give me 100 excuses, it gets exacerbating and then consequently we run out of time. Like I asked them for assistance in putting some toys away--and then we'd go for ice cream, by the time we got to the point that we would go--a job that in reality I felt would take less than 10 minutes if everybody contributed, between the dilly-dallying, non-compliance, tantrums etc. it took over an hour and I lost the motivation to take them. The vibe I'm getting is that its completely appropriate for a 5-year old to not take ANY responsibility and I'm supposed to give him EVERYTHING he wants and demands--because it seems that that is exactly what he wants. Am I understanding correctly?

amother

Green

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 12:18 pm

amother wrote:

No, you are not understanding correctly.

Op, You. Need. Help. And fast, before you lose your child forever.

JenniferK

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 12:24 pm

This morning, DD made her bed (with a 5 year old perfection). Then she had me make our beds and and proceeded to place the decorative pillows. She OFFERED.

It opened my eyes how not demanding but exemplifying, accomplishes much more. When I am motivated and keep the house put together (doesn't happen often) then she feels the same way.

OP, whatever you give him should come from a place of you being a mother and providing for your kid. The minute you expect something from a 5 year old in return, your heading down the wrong path.

You should teach him to clean up his toys etc. for chinuch purposes. If you phrase it this way then if he would pick up 5 toys, your efforts and intentions were satisfied. He doesn't need to clean up or throw something in the garbage etc. because he owes you anything. He doesn't.

Hashem entrusted you with a neshama to help it fulfill it's tafkid. Not to serve your needs. It is a precious gift, handle with care.

Your child feels like he owes you the world.He doesn't like that attitude. It may be working for your other kids, but he is not having it.

Change your perspective and he will change his.

saw50st8

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 12:28 pm

OP, I want to throw my support to you because I think you are being unfairly attacked. It is absolutely OK to have expectations of your children. It is OK to expect them to pitch in and clean up. It's ridiculous to just say that your 5 year old should never clean up. 100 years ago, kids were farming at 5, picking up some blocks shouldn't be a big deal unless your child has major challenges.

Now that being said, I also believe that kids do well when they can and something is stopping him. Maybe he needs more empathy before he starts cleaning up? Saying things like It is really hard to stop something fun to do something boring like cleaning up may help him.

I know you've said you tried finding out exactly what he doesn't like about cleaning up, but you might have to ask the question in different ways. Or does he want you to help him so that he's spending more time with you? My kids are much more likely to do chores if I'm doing them alongside because they can also talk to me as I'm doing things.

Your expectations are fine, you just need to figure out the implementation.

amother

Pearl

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 12:28 pm

http://www.focusonthefamily.co.....hores
Ages 4 and 5

Note: This age can be trained to use a family chore chart.

Personal chores

Get dressed with minimal parental help
Make their bed with minimal parental help
Bring their things from the car to the house
PIck up their toys
Wash hands

I've looked at several responsibilities-by-age and almost ALL of them say that by 5 years-old a child should be able to put toys away. He's NOT a baby anymore, but none of the behavior modification methods that are typical for encouraging responsibility seem to be working with him.

saw50st8

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 12:39 pm

Zehava wrote:

That is because you are treating him like a textbook. He is a living breathing child. Your child. For Pete's sake. You are missing the point by a mile. Your attitude is horrific and he is responding to that. You are sabotaging any chance of him learning responsibility. He is way too busy defending himself against your emotional abuse.

Zehava, that's beyond the pale. You are calling amother abusive??? You know so little about her. Shame on you. Your experiences growing up are probably coloring your views. Not every imperfect parent is abusive. (And actually, we are all imperfect parents)

amother

Orange

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 12:41 pm

I think everyone is getting a bit carried away here, perhaps by inserting their own experiences into the mix. A five year old can definitely put away his toys, and get dressed and put his clothing in the hamper. My 2 year old helps put away her toys. They don't help me or help in the household but they can definitely start learning responsibility and tidiness. That being said, obviously op's son is reacting in a certain way to these expectations and this whole situation should be examined and dealt with but those insinuating that op is doing something horrible and horrific are way over the top. Op should take a step back and try some of the ideas and reach out to her son in a positive way.