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Forum
-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Would you think it was a little strange/make you feel uncomfortable if your son had a single Rebbie/teacher
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| Yes I would feel uncomfortable and would not be happy with this scenario |
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6% |
[ 7 ] |
| No I would not think it was strange and I would be fine with this scenario |
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83% |
[ 89 ] |
| It would depend on the age that is being taught (please elaborate in the comments below) |
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10% |
[ 11 ] |
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| Total Votes : 107 |
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rzab
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 Thu, Jul 27 2017, 2:26 pm
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For those of you who say absolutely not, I wonder what you would say about the following scenario. We have a friend who got a job as a shoel umeshiv at a Yeshiva when he was 25. Totally normal for a young single guy. At one point they asked him to do a weekly chabura. Then a little more. Now 10 years later, he's a full rebbe . And still single. Should the Yeshiva have stopped promoting this clearly talented man bc he hasn't been able to find the right girl?
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MagentaYenta
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 2:29 pm
| amother wrote: | | The one male-on-male perv rebbe I was "zoiche" to be acquainted with personally was married with children when he engaged in 6ual misconduct in the school where he worked. |
Open your eyes, there is more than one.
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debsey
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 2:39 pm
This is going to sound terrible.
No offense to your husband, OP.
My stance with every single person who works with my kids is "Chabdehu V'Chashdehu" - Respect but suspect. Single, married, old, young, I'm very alert about all of them.
For example, when my son was learning with a rebbe for his bar mitzvah, and the rebbe wanted to learn in his home (with his wife and kids there, but still, you never know) I casually figured out a way to make that happen in a shul, at a time that my older son learns there, and made sure to tell my son to kind of casually drift over every so often.
Same with camp counselors etc.
If a single man who is teaching in my kid's school offered to tutor my kid one - on-one, I'd be even more cautious about where the tutoring would take place. Since he's single, his house would be out of the question, and if he offered it, that alone would be a red flag to say "no thanks" because I'd assume that a healthy single man would be aware of the risks of being alone with a kid. Whereas a married male tutor, if he offered his house as the place for the tutoring, I'd assume other people will be home. I'd still say no, but it wouldn't be a red flag automatically.
I dk if I'm expressing the distinction clearly.
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amother
Salmon
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 2:42 pm
| anon for this wrote: | | I wouldn't find it strange at all. However, I believe that there's a halacha that a single man shouldn't teach young children, I think because he would be in close contact with their mothers when they drop off and pick up their children. I would guess that this reason wouldn't apply in many schools today, where parents do not usually even see the teacher when they pick up or drop off their children. |
I don't know if that's the reason for the halacha but there definitely is a halacha or gemara or something about this. My son's cheder had a pre-school Rebbe that divorced mid year and was asked not to return the following year. The Rebbe had no complaints as he knew the vaad had a legitimate reason based on his single status.
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Chayalle
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 2:44 pm
| Iymnok wrote: | | A Shul rabbi often deals with bedika sand marital issues. So not okay for a single guy. |
You do know R' Moshe Feinstein was a Rav in a town at the age of 19, single?
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amother
Hotpink
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 2:47 pm
| debsey wrote: | This is going to sound terrible.
No offense to your husband, OP.
My stance with every single person who works with my kids is "Chabdehu V'Chashdehu" - Respect but suspect. Single, married, old, young, I'm very alert about all of them.
For example, when my son was learning with a rebbe for his bar mitzvah, and the rebbe wanted to learn in his home (with his wife and kids there, but still, you never know) I casually figured out a way to make that happen in a shul, at a time that my older son learns there, and made sure to tell my son to kind of casually drift over every so often.
Same with camp counselors etc.
If a single man who is teaching in my kid's school offered to tutor my kid one - on-one, I'd be even more cautious about where the tutoring would take place. Since he's single, his house would be out of the question, and if he offered it, that alone would be a red flag to say "no thanks" because I'd assume that a healthy single man would be aware of the risks of being alone with a kid. Whereas a married male tutor, if he offered his house as the place for the tutoring, I'd assume other people will be home. I'd still say no, but it wouldn't be a red flag automatically.
I dk if I'm expressing the distinction clearly. |
My husband has tutored and given bar mitzvah lessons for years, starting when he was single. His policy is that he will only work with boys in their own home (ie at the table) or in a populated beis medrash. He just does not want to be in a situation where anyone can even suspect anything.
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gold21
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 3:54 pm
| tichellady wrote: | | Is it ok for an obgyn or a marriage therapist not to be married? |
No, I don't think I would trust an unmarried marriage therapist. That would be like trusting a dentist with a mouthful of decayed teeth.
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gold21
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 3:57 pm
| rzab wrote: | | For those of you who say absolutely not, I wonder what you would say about the following scenario. We have a friend who got a job as a shoel umeshiv at a Yeshiva when he was 25. Totally normal for a young single guy. At one point they asked him to do a weekly chabura. Then a little more. Now 10 years later, he's a full rebbe . And still single. Should the Yeshiva have stopped promoting this clearly talented man bc he hasn't been able to find the right girl? |
A Rebbe of adult young men or a Rebbe of young boys?
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gold21
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 3:58 pm
| Chayalle wrote: | | You do know R' Moshe Feinstein was a Rav in a town at the age of 19, single? |
Do you know anyone more recent that worked as a shul rabbi while single?
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debsey
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 4:09 pm
| amother wrote: | | My husband has tutored and given bar mitzvah lessons for years, starting when he was single. His policy is that he will only work with boys in their own home (ie at the table) or in a populated beis medrash. He just does not want to be in a situation where anyone can even suspect anything. |
Because he has good judgement!
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asmileaday
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 4:52 pm
I think it depends on the community. In the chassidisha circles it's not done at all afaik. Even my son's camp won't hire single counselors (I know it's not the norm most camps would).
Personally I'd have no problem if my son's Rebbe was single as long as he's good at what he's doing.
But unfortunately the system doesn't really have room for boys to grow old, still be single, and be talented and capable enough to be a good Rebbe. The "good" boys stay in yeshiva till they marry and those that have enough guts to go to work are usually not cut out to be Rebbes.
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shabbatiscoming
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 5:33 pm
| gold21 wrote: | | No, I don't think I would trust an unmarried marriage therapist. That would be like trusting a dentist with a mouthful of decayed teeth. | no, its like a dentist without any teeth.
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asmileaday
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 5:43 pm
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | | no, its like a dentist without any teeth. |
I hear what you're saying but in that vein you can say you wouldn't go to an oncologist that didn't have cancer, or an ob that's male and never had a baby etc... no?
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Aylat
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 5:47 pm
| gold21 wrote: | | Do you know anyone more recent that worked as a shul rabbi while single? |
I know a shul rabbi who got divorced and continued in his job. Is this discussion about never married men or also men who are currently single because widowed or divorced?
I don't know what is 'done' but I think it is ridiculous to bar a talented dedicated rebbe from teaching because he isn't married. I don't even get what the issue is? Is it fear of abuse? Many posters have already addressed that - observe appropriate boundaries in all cases, predators can be married fathers etc. Seriously, is there some other factor or issue that I'm missing here?
Btw, if I remember correctly, there is a requirement (or recommendation) for certain positions to be held by a man who is a father. I think maybe a dayan on a beis din and the chazzan for the yamim noraim. (Don't quote me on this without checking.) The only person who I can think of who has to be married is the cohen gadol on yom kippur.
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Aylat
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 5:49 pm
| gold21 wrote: | | No, I don't think I would trust an unmarried marriage therapist. That would be like trusting a dentist with a mouthful of decayed teeth. |
Totally disagree with this analogy and its application to this situation.
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amother
Yellow
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 5:52 pm
| asmileaday wrote: | | I hear what you're saying but in that vein you can say you wouldn't go to an oncologist that didn't have cancer, or an ob that's male and never had a baby etc... no? |
Yup and that's why I am a bit skeptical of obgyns who have not had babies male or female.
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Aylat
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 5:54 pm
| debsey wrote: |
If a single man who is teaching in my kid's school offered to tutor my kid one - on-one, I'd be even more cautious about where the tutoring would take place. Since he's single, his house would be out of the question, and if he offered it, that alone would be a red flag to say "no thanks" because I'd assume that a healthy single man would be aware of the risks of being alone with a kid. |
What? What risks are there for a healthy man alone with a boy? Do you mean a risk of being accused or suspected of wrongdoing? Or a risk of actually doing something wrong? Because no, healthy normal individuals do not have to worry that they might abuse a child if they are left alone with them.
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gold21
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 6:04 pm
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | | no, its like a dentist without any teeth. |
Lol good point
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Aylat
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 6:13 pm
| amother wrote: | | Yup and that's why I am a bit skeptical of obgyns who have not had babies male or female. |
My husband has never broken any of his bones bH. He is an orthopedist. Would you trust him to relocate a dislocated shoulder, cast your child's broken arm and carry out a hip replacement on your elderly relative? If not, why not? If yes, how is this different from the childless/male obgybn? From the never-married marriage therapist? From the single yeshiva rebbe?
Genuine questions not rhetorical. If you differentiate between those scenarios, how and why? I'm trying to understand.
And related random fact - John Gray who wrote the much recommended Mars and Venus relationship books and who travels the world giving relationship seminars, had a failed marriage that ended in divorce. Does that undermine his credibility as a marriage counsellor? He says he gained so much insight into relationships as a result. (He is currently married.) https://www.marsvenus.com/john.....y.htm
How does this compare to a dentist with tooth decay?
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gold21
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Thu, Jul 27 2017, 6:54 pm
| Aylat wrote: | My husband has never broken any of his bones bH. He is an orthopedist. Would you trust him to relocate a dislocated shoulder, cast your child's broken arm and carry out a hip replacement on your elderly relative? If not, why not? If yes, how is this different from the childless/male obgybn? From the never-married marriage therapist? From the single yeshiva rebbe?
Genuine questions not rhetorical. If you differentiate between those scenarios, how and why? I'm trying to understand.
And related random fact - John Gray who wrote the much recommended Mars and Venus relationship books and who travels the world giving relationship seminars, had a failed marriage that ended in divorce. Does that undermine his credibility as a marriage counsellor? He says he gained so much insight into relationships as a result. (He is currently married.) https://www.marsvenus.com/john.....y.htm
How does this compare to a dentist with tooth decay? |
Apparently he has a successful marriage now, so yes I would trust him to advise on marriage.
If he had no track record of a successful relationship, then no, I absolutely would not trust his advice.
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